RE: You Know You Want To: £20K Porsche 996 Turbo
Discussion
ES335 said:
I had one before my current E92 M3
Good points:
Balistically quick on boost - not very interesting below 2,500RPM though;
Steering feel - even though this gets criticised relative to the older cars, still wonderful by any other standard;
Fabulous handling - roadholding and particularly willingness to turn in.
Bomb proof engine v other 996s and certainly early 997s too.
Looks - I had mine on BBS LMs - the naturally aspirated shape just looks a bit bland to me - at least the turbo's addenda distract from the hideous front lights (what were they thinking).
Bad points
Tip box (regrettably) absolutely rubbish;
BOSE alleged hi fi - even worse;
Road noise - a total pain on motorways;
Capacity to flatten battery - a total pain if not used regularly.
-
I had the pleasure of being a passenger on track in a well developed and driven 996GT3 which made the TT feel like it was broken handling wise.
I sold it because the tip box destroyed its capacity for B road fun and apart from its acceleration, at steady state motorway speeds it was just one long drone.
The M3's chassis is less pure, but its engine and overall useability make it a better proposition from my perspective - albeit that its fuel consumption is even more dire.
Porsche's biggest problem is they can't make the turbo too organic and hardcore otherwise it will tread on the gt3's toes. Not easy having so many models in the range. Gets a bit tiring with the 'which one would you rather have', it's not an either or, they are two different cars, badge aside they are totally different. Like I alluded to in a previous post, with fuel prices going up, I think you will eventually see loads of stripped out updated track day 996 tts. The everyday usefulness of them is diminished as they get older, they made too many to be an investment, but credit to Porsche for making enough so that mere mortals can try them, that never happened with the 993 because they didnt make enough - I don't think they've ever been under £35k. Good points:
Balistically quick on boost - not very interesting below 2,500RPM though;
Steering feel - even though this gets criticised relative to the older cars, still wonderful by any other standard;
Fabulous handling - roadholding and particularly willingness to turn in.
Bomb proof engine v other 996s and certainly early 997s too.
Looks - I had mine on BBS LMs - the naturally aspirated shape just looks a bit bland to me - at least the turbo's addenda distract from the hideous front lights (what were they thinking).
Bad points
Tip box (regrettably) absolutely rubbish;
BOSE alleged hi fi - even worse;
Road noise - a total pain on motorways;
Capacity to flatten battery - a total pain if not used regularly.
-
I had the pleasure of being a passenger on track in a well developed and driven 996GT3 which made the TT feel like it was broken handling wise.
I sold it because the tip box destroyed its capacity for B road fun and apart from its acceleration, at steady state motorway speeds it was just one long drone.
The M3's chassis is less pure, but its engine and overall useability make it a better proposition from my perspective - albeit that its fuel consumption is even more dire.
Other than the obvious power advantage how does the turbo drive compared to a C4? Drove a 996 C4 and a Boxster S and honestly preferred the Boxster. Passengered in a turbo on track and it went well but you can't tell a lot from the passenger seat, if it's just like a C4 with a power hike even though I think they look beautiful one may not be the car for me.
Boshly said:
Really?? and to both quotes.
Firstly to Gregg66 there is an area between "like" and "dislike"/"hate"; though I do accept generally that not many people question the cars capabilities just whether it 'does anything' for them. I cant actually recall many people stating they don't like the car.
Secondly to TomTVR500 that is a pretty strong statement that I'm sure most people on here who have expressed a non effusive opinion would find incorrect at the least and possibly offensive! I would suggest (though CBA to check) that many of your so called "haters" have driven and/or owned similar or identical cars.
Well in that case I apologise. I certainly did not mean to offend. There are many people who have expressed a perfectly understandable reason for the 996 Turbo not being for them and that is absolutely fair enough.Firstly to Gregg66 there is an area between "like" and "dislike"/"hate"; though I do accept generally that not many people question the cars capabilities just whether it 'does anything' for them. I cant actually recall many people stating they don't like the car.
Secondly to TomTVR500 that is a pretty strong statement that I'm sure most people on here who have expressed a non effusive opinion would find incorrect at the least and possibly offensive! I would suggest (though CBA to check) that many of your so called "haters" have driven and/or owned similar or identical cars.
It was more of a general point that a lot of people (mostly not car enthusiasts) dismiss cars without giving them a chance as a result of preconceptions and a lot of the time I personally believe the fact they are just so capable upsets people if the car in question is one they dislike.
by the way the reason so many 996tts were made is simply because all of us in Europe and US love hire purchase. everyone with 15k in the bank went out and took debt so they could be seen in this £95k car, people taking risks etc, remortgaging their houses.
the same is true of the 997tt. So as long as credit is easy go get hold of there will be plenty of these cars to pick up on the 2nd hand market.
To back up my simple point, look how many Bentley GT's are for sale on here... hundreds... How many Bentley Turbo R's were sold back in the mid 90's... not that many. Its simple case of easy and cheap credit.
GT3s havent quite become so popular simply because the average man on the street thinks its a weekend car only not capable of being run everyday or they think the running costs are too high.
the same is true of the 997tt. So as long as credit is easy go get hold of there will be plenty of these cars to pick up on the 2nd hand market.
To back up my simple point, look how many Bentley GT's are for sale on here... hundreds... How many Bentley Turbo R's were sold back in the mid 90's... not that many. Its simple case of easy and cheap credit.
GT3s havent quite become so popular simply because the average man on the street thinks its a weekend car only not capable of being run everyday or they think the running costs are too high.
Porkie said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?
With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
They will... With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.
I have a 996 Turbo X50.
I have had various performance cars in the past and have always remapped etc (two S3s, Leon Cupra R, Audi RS6, Focus RS, Cosworth Powered Westfield) but I have always sold them after a year or so.
My 911 is the car I have owned the longest (nearly 3 years) and while I appreciate looks aren't to everyone's taste, I like it. It is the best car I have owned in terms of speed, presence, build quality and reliability and the only thing at present that I can see myself changing it for is the 997.
I have had various performance cars in the past and have always remapped etc (two S3s, Leon Cupra R, Audi RS6, Focus RS, Cosworth Powered Westfield) but I have always sold them after a year or so.
My 911 is the car I have owned the longest (nearly 3 years) and while I appreciate looks aren't to everyone's taste, I like it. It is the best car I have owned in terms of speed, presence, build quality and reliability and the only thing at present that I can see myself changing it for is the 997.
SuperMario had a skateboard on my old Segs Megadrive, I really fancy one of those don't you?
If people don't want them I will have them!LMAO!
ady702 said:
tomellingham said:
cjb1 said:
it's is generally recognised as being one of the most unloved 911's of all times, the 964 being second to it.
I love the 964 because it was my favourite car on Need For Speed on the 3DO. And the 996 turbo was my favourite car on NFS:Porsche Challange.If people don't want them I will have them!
Not from the back and in that colour it isn't, but the front, pppeeerrrllleeezzzee!
MiseryStreak said:
There is a lot of crap being talked on here. OK, the 996 Turbo might not be most people's first choice of Porsche if money is no object, but to say it is 'soulless' just because it's four wheel drive and forced induction is just silly. It was pretty highly acclaimed in its day. Evo Car of the Year in 2000 I believe.
Not everyone can afford the old air cooled or latest Porsches and even if they could, the 996 Turbo is a car that can be easily tuned to 500bhp without upgrading engine internals and is pretty good value if blistering all weather acceleration is desired. In terms of image, I'll bet there are less knobheads driving them around now than when they were new (bought by enthusiasts rather than just poseurs). It's an affordable Supercar, why all the haters?
Not that bad looking is it?
Not everyone can afford the old air cooled or latest Porsches and even if they could, the 996 Turbo is a car that can be easily tuned to 500bhp without upgrading engine internals and is pretty good value if blistering all weather acceleration is desired. In terms of image, I'll bet there are less knobheads driving them around now than when they were new (bought by enthusiasts rather than just poseurs). It's an affordable Supercar, why all the haters?
Not that bad looking is it?
Edited by MiseryStreak on Tuesday 26th June 16:53
FFS man, lighten up you bloody anorak, it was a joke, earth humour, get back in your bedroom and play with your joystick geeky-boy
daemonoid said:
cjb1 said:
SuperMario had a skateboard on my old Segs Megadrive, I really fancy one of those don't you?
Don't remember Mario having a skateboard and he certainly wasn't on a Megadrive!thewheelman said:
Porkie said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?
With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
They will... With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
Quite right too, most 911's in their senior years be it normally aspirated or force fed are used as weekend toys so don't clock up megga miles, so don't clock up megga bills either, if averaged out over a year it's not unusual for them to be fairly economical to run.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.The price won't go lower than what they are now, give it a few years & the price will rise. A very similar pattern to the 964.There will never be a 'cheap' 911, either turbo or otherwise.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
BlimeyCharlie said:
thewheelman said:
Porkie said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?
With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
They will... With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
cjb1 said:
Quite right too, most 911's in their senior years be it normally aspirated or force fed are used as weekend toys so don't clock up megga miles, so don't clock up megga bills either, if averaged out over a year it's not unusual for them to be fairly economical to run.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.The price won't go lower than what they are now, give it a few years & the price will rise. A very similar pattern to the 964.There will never be a 'cheap' 911, either turbo or otherwise.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
Had mine since 2004, total cost of repairs (excluding upgrade which is not a running cost) New clutch £1200, New rad £800, Total cost £2000 divided by 8 years = ££250 per year. BLOODY CHEAP MOTORING IF YOU ASK ME!BlimeyCharlie said:
thewheelman said:
Porkie said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?
With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
They will... With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
Moosh said:
cjb1 said:
Quite right too, most 911's in their senior years be it normally aspirated or force fed are used as weekend toys so don't clock up megga miles, so don't clock up megga bills either, if averaged out over a year it's not unusual for them to be fairly economical to run.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.The price won't go lower than what they are now, give it a few years & the price will rise. A very similar pattern to the 964.There will never be a 'cheap' 911, either turbo or otherwise.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
Had mine since 2004, total cost of repairs (excluding upgrade which is not a running cost) New clutch £1200, New rad £800, Total cost £2000 divided by 8 years = ££250 per year. BLOODY CHEAP MOTORING IF YOU ASK ME!BlimeyCharlie said:
thewheelman said:
Porkie said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?
With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
They will... With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
ES335 said:
I had the pleasure of being a passenger on track in a well developed and driven 996GT3 which made the TT feel like it was broken handling wise.
So you were the passenger in a different car, that was modified and was piloted by a good driver on a track. I'm not sure that's really much of a frame of reference.
thewheelman said:
The price won't go lower than what they are now, give it a few years & the price will rise. A very similar pattern to the 964.
Not IMHO. Its about the numbers of cars built.... I paid £60k for mine and a few years later prices when went sub £30k I used to think prices wouldnt go lower... this is a 100k almost 200mpg 911 Turbo after all.... A year later and £6k worth of work later at JZM I sold it for £22k.
Prices won't go up of 996 Turbos, Just so many to choose from and the 997 that came after....
996 GT2 and GT3RS prices should do though.
People saying about the Character of these cars... and them being bit soulness. Its easy to add some excitement... especially on an older car thats a bit tired and has some miles under its belt. DMS remap and exhaust provided some extra go, JZM stuck some Manthey spec KW coilovers on mine and set up the Geo, I put some sticky R888's on and did some trackdays.... and WOW! what a weapon.
Totally different proposition to the standard car on 50k mile on suspension and road Pirellis! It may not have been as 'pure' as a 996 GT3 but it was certainly as quick or quicker on track I found.... and LOTS of fun of track. Much more so than the 552bhp R34 GTR I also had at the time.
Bigger brakes were soon needed!
Great cars
Edited by Porkie on Wednesday 27th June 17:23
Porkie said:
Not IMHO. Its about the numbers of cars built....
I paid £60k for mine and a few years later prices when went sub £30k I used to think prices wouldnt go lower... this is a 100k almost 200mpg 911 Turbo after all.... A year later and £6k worth of work later at JZM I sold it for £22k.
Prices won't go up of 996 Turbos, Just so many to choose from and the 997 that came after....
996 GT2 and GT3RS prices should do though.
I would love a turbo, but I would always be wishing I had held out for a GT2 I think!
People saying about the Character of these cars... and them being bit soulness. Its easy to add some excitement... especially on an older car thats a bit tired and has some miles under its belt. DMS remap and exhaust provided some extra go, JZM stuck some Manthey spec KW coilovers on mine and set up the Geo, I put some sticky R888's on and did some trackdays.... and WOW! what a weapon.
Totally different proposition to the standard car on 50k mile on suspension and road Pirellis! It may not have been as 'pure' as a 996 GT3 but it was certainly as quick or quicker on track I found.... and LOTS of fun of track. Much more so than the 552bhp R34 GTR I also had at the time.
Bigger brakes were soon needed!
Great cars
I paid £60k for mine and a few years later prices when went sub £30k I used to think prices wouldnt go lower... this is a 100k almost 200mpg 911 Turbo after all.... A year later and £6k worth of work later at JZM I sold it for £22k.
Prices won't go up of 996 Turbos, Just so many to choose from and the 997 that came after....
996 GT2 and GT3RS prices should do though.
I would love a turbo, but I would always be wishing I had held out for a GT2 I think!
People saying about the Character of these cars... and them being bit soulness. Its easy to add some excitement... especially on an older car thats a bit tired and has some miles under its belt. DMS remap and exhaust provided some extra go, JZM stuck some Manthey spec KW coilovers on mine and set up the Geo, I put some sticky R888's on and did some trackdays.... and WOW! what a weapon.
Totally different proposition to the standard car on 50k mile on suspension and road Pirellis! It may not have been as 'pure' as a 996 GT3 but it was certainly as quick or quicker on track I found.... and LOTS of fun of track. Much more so than the 552bhp R34 GTR I also had at the time.
Bigger brakes were soon needed!
Great cars
Edited by Porkie on Wednesday 27th June 17:23
Spot on!! A 996 Turbo in either red or speed yellow is the only one I'd even consider, personal choice onl you understand, not dictating as if it's an instruction before any trolls come on acusingly!! LOL, remember girls, sence of humour........
Guessing that's your car on your profile pic? It looks stunning in red, a nice change from the silver/grey.
thewheelman said:
Moosh said:
cjb1 said:
Quite right too, most 911's in their senior years be it normally aspirated or force fed are used as weekend toys so don't clock up megga miles, so don't clock up megga bills either, if averaged out over a year it's not unusual for them to be fairly economical to run.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.The price won't go lower than what they are now, give it a few years & the price will rise. A very similar pattern to the 964.There will never be a 'cheap' 911, either turbo or otherwise.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
Had mine since 2004, total cost of repairs (excluding upgrade which is not a running cost) New clutch £1200, New rad £800, Total cost £2000 divided by 8 years = ££250 per year. BLOODY CHEAP MOTORING IF YOU ASK ME!BlimeyCharlie said:
thewheelman said:
Porkie said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?
With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
They will... With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.
Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.
And while there is a stigma concerning 911 turbo 'running costs' then that for me is a good thing.
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