RE: PH Fleet: Jaguar XF Diesel S
Discussion
DJDally said:
s
t box, buy German and be done with it.
I've posted this a few too many times, but what the heck.t box, buy German and be done with it.http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012...
Buy German by all means, but don't go near a new Audi, Volkswagen, Mini or Smart apparently!
cslwannabe said:
No end of electrical issues with our 59 plate XF - in fact it's in the dealer right now for about the 6th time this year. Sat nav not working, glovebox wouldn't stay closed, battery symbol kept coming on but battery fine, speakers stopped working, rear door wouldn't open, boot wouldn't open, headlight bulbs last about 3-4 months, park brake fault light regularly appears. Now that have ordered 640d we are attempting to hand it back and terminate lease early as by far the worst car we've ever owned. Shame as was reliable for first 12 months and is a joy when everything is working (rare these days).
Mirrors my experience. Mine must have been in the dealers every 2 months for problems. Majority electrical. When it worked it was great, but you were always holding your breath waiting for the next fault to appear. Really, truly, disappointing. Eventually got rid, despite the depreciation hit I had to bear. Never again. Shame, as the new XJ is stunning. Fool me once...
Max_Torque said:
For me personally, Electronic Feature Content (hence forth referred to as simply EFC!) ruins many a potential great car.
EFC enables manufacturers to lure buys in with "must have" options, which frankly are little use to any one, and this means they can skimp on the rest of the car (and often they HAVE too, becuase they have blown the dev budget on the EFC!)
etc. etc.
The big problem here - as best as I can tell - is that controlling the whole car from a touchscreen (or a knob, in the case of iDrive) is a fEFC enables manufacturers to lure buys in with "must have" options, which frankly are little use to any one, and this means they can skimp on the rest of the car (and often they HAVE too, becuase they have blown the dev budget on the EFC!)
etc. etc.
kING STUPID IDEA.What used to happen is that cars had separate buttons for stuff - so if you wanted to adjust the aircon you did that, then you pressed the button for the rear blinds, or turned the knob to adjust the volume on the radio - or pressed the button to heat your seat or whatever.
When you put all of that on the same screen - you make it a MASSIVE MASSIVE ballache. People have to hack through menu after menu to find the functions they want. Something which was 2nd nature in a car (once you'd owned it a week) is now a major technical nightmare to achieve - before you could do it anytime, now you need to park-up because it demands your full attention.
It's not impossible rectify but it requires someone to step-up and recognise it's a problem - that they need to invest in people who have the skills to achieve the level of improvement required etc. etc.
Meanwhile, you're paying £50K for a car with an 'UI' which looks like it came from a £17 DVD player.
The reason, IMO, why cars have gone to sticking every control on one stick or one screen is that it is cheap. Cars for different market just need different software; you don'y have to print out different words on dash panels. Furthermore, buttons are seen as expensive too.
I can't imagine the XF is any worse than the E60. Mine drives me up the wall. e.g. In the E39m, if you're listening to a CD and you want to listen to FM, you press the button with "FM" above it. On the iDrive, you have to toggle up two, twizzle left two then hit "select".
Getting fresh air out of the centre vent is ridiculous. On the E39, you rotate a thunbwheel from Hot to Cold. That's it. On the E60's iDrive, you (**thinks**) hold it left for about 2 seconds, twizzle(!) twice to the right, then hold the iDrive controller down for about two seconds. All that whilst you're meant to be concentrating on the road. You also only get 3 settings whereas on the E39 it's at any point between hot & cold.
I can't imagine the XF is any worse than the E60. Mine drives me up the wall. e.g. In the E39m, if you're listening to a CD and you want to listen to FM, you press the button with "FM" above it. On the iDrive, you have to toggle up two, twizzle left two then hit "select".
Getting fresh air out of the centre vent is ridiculous. On the E39, you rotate a thunbwheel from Hot to Cold. That's it. On the E60's iDrive, you (**thinks**) hold it left for about 2 seconds, twizzle(!) twice to the right, then hold the iDrive controller down for about two seconds. All that whilst you're meant to be concentrating on the road. You also only get 3 settings whereas on the E39 it's at any point between hot & cold.
I'm not sure it's just 'cheapness' but there's definately a lack of investment going into these control systems - they appear to be designed almost more for how they look than how they work.
Put some of the people who make video games on the job - the level of skill which goes into some games' UI makes the work major car manufacturers put into their cars look like kids scribblings.
and yes, I'm aware that the GT guy did the GTR's dash display stuff, but his games suck - get someone with some talent
Put some of the people who make video games on the job - the level of skill which goes into some games' UI makes the work major car manufacturers put into their cars look like kids scribblings.
and yes, I'm aware that the GT guy did the GTR's dash display stuff, but his games suck - get someone with some talent
Completely agree SSBB - actually nothing really went wrong in first 20k miles (apart from the fact you didn't dare put the windows down as you struggled to get them fully closed again). Ours was in the garage for a week and a half at Easter time while they replaced wiring harnesses etc yet it still has electrical gremlins as before.
I really have no idea how they fare so well in the JD Power survey etc. People keep telling me that we have just been unlucky yet it behaved really well for the first 12 months before all the troubles started.
Also ours is a 3.0D and although some people suggest it is only the 2.7 which go through rear pads at an alarming rate, this is not our experience. The rear pads were replaced at 22k miles and both the front and rear pads have been replaced again since - its in for 48k mile service this week and won't be too surprised if they tell it needs pads again based on the wear rate of them so far.
Having had 2x BMWs previously it has been a real shock to the system and seriously doubt we will ever consider another. The good news is we have signed up for a 640d based on 16k miles a year, which will actually cost less than the 3.0D XF does based on 20k miles a year, which I think is a pretty good deal.
I really have no idea how they fare so well in the JD Power survey etc. People keep telling me that we have just been unlucky yet it behaved really well for the first 12 months before all the troubles started.
Also ours is a 3.0D and although some people suggest it is only the 2.7 which go through rear pads at an alarming rate, this is not our experience. The rear pads were replaced at 22k miles and both the front and rear pads have been replaced again since - its in for 48k mile service this week and won't be too surprised if they tell it needs pads again based on the wear rate of them so far.
Having had 2x BMWs previously it has been a real shock to the system and seriously doubt we will ever consider another. The good news is we have signed up for a 640d based on 16k miles a year, which will actually cost less than the 3.0D XF does based on 20k miles a year, which I think is a pretty good deal.
cslwannabe said:
Also ours is a 3.0D and although some people suggest it is only the 2.7 which go through rear pads at an alarming rate, this is not our experience. The rear pads were replaced at 22k miles and both the front and rear pads have been replaced again since - its in for 48k mile service this week and won't be too surprised if they tell it needs pads again based on the wear rate of them so far.
My pads were done at 18k and 35k, on a 3.0D. Although, it was the first automatic car I had owned, so not sure if that is par for the course or not.MSTRBKR said:
I've posted this a few too many times, but what the heck.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012...
Buy German by all means, but don't go near a new Audi, Volkswagen, Mini or Smart apparently!
There is a certain degree of amusement in his post, especially considering the relative positions of his German Mini and Jaguar.http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012...
Buy German by all means, but don't go near a new Audi, Volkswagen, Mini or Smart apparently!
The JD Power survey you linked to is the US one which has Jag 2nd. This is the UK one - http://cars.uk.msn.com/features/jd-power-reliabili... which has Jag in a different position.
Max_Torque said:
1) Electronic handbrakes - FFS, if you're too pathetic to be able to pull a small lever when you stop, or too incompetent to do a hill start then should you be driving at all?
You'll probably find the main reason for manufacturers installing electronic handbrakes is more to do with interior design than any kind of driver aid. Try and find a space for one in a new 7 series or any other premium car!As for the rest....on the whole, I'd agree. I wouldn't say any one system from any one manufacturer is better or worse though. They're all nightmareishly complicated...especially the ones with these ludicrous control wheels or trackpads. There are some things I agree with though.
1) Bluetooth music and phone. Possibly the best invention ever precisely because it REDUCES the amount of faf. Once set up, you get in, it starts playing your music and you can make and recieve calls without having to faff.
2) Some kind of winter mode - With all the 'dynamic' throttle pedals these days (read: throttle pedals which fully open the throttle in the first 3mm of pedal travel), something to slow this down a bit in your RWD saloon at least means you stand perhaps a 10% change of making it off the drive in snow as opposed to a 0% chance.
Everything else can go thanks. I don't want to have to configure 'M' mode on a BMW to choose a suspension setting that doesn't make my teeth fall out.
SSBB said:
Mirrors my experience. Mine must have been in the dealers every 2 months for problems. Majority electrical. When it worked it was great, but you were always holding your breath waiting for the next fault to appear. Really, truly, disappointing.
Eventually got rid, despite the depreciation hit I had to bear. Never again. Shame, as the new XJ is stunning. Fool me once...
Exact same issue for me. I got all excited when I saw the new XF so I order a car at launch and got it April 08. Worst car I have ever owned in terms of reliability and quality and was in and out of the dealers on at least a fortnightly basis. Sitting in London the sat nav didnt even recognise the M25! The list of faults my car had was massive and I gave up after 18 months. Lost loads on it and then I see the new XJ and think WANT but then I went and sat in one. The mismatch between the quality of the electronic instruments and the navigation screen instantly said to me, things havent changed and once bitten.....Eventually got rid, despite the depreciation hit I had to bear. Never again. Shame, as the new XJ is stunning. Fool me once...
Tyre Tread said:
Care to enlighten us about the basis for that opinion.
It strikes me that the Jag is a better made produce than a Saxo, a Clio or a Fiesta for example which to my mind would be what you describe.
Just dont go there. It strikes me that the Jag is a better made produce than a Saxo, a Clio or a Fiesta for example which to my mind would be what you describe.
Saxo/Clio's are thrown together ill give you that, Fiesta's are quite solid though, and hardly a good comparison is it? 10 year old hatchbacks v modern high end saloon? Nice comparison there buddy!
Its funny because the 12v charger cover in the jag is straight from a ford fiesta.
JulesB said:
Tyre Tread said:
Care to enlighten us about the basis for that opinion.
It strikes me that the Jag is a better made produce than a Saxo, a Clio or a Fiesta for example which to my mind would be what you describe.
Just dont go there. It strikes me that the Jag is a better made produce than a Saxo, a Clio or a Fiesta for example which to my mind would be what you describe.
Saxo/Clio's are thrown together ill give you that, Fiesta's are quite solid though, and hardly a good comparison is it? 10 year old hatchbacks v modern high end saloon? Nice comparison there buddy!
Its funny because the 12v charger cover in the jag is straight from a ford fiesta.
The only reason I used the cars I listed was, as I am sure you are aware, they are listed as your current and previous cars and assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you were basing your opinion upon a comparison with them.
I'd still like to know why you have given your opinion as you have and upon what it is based.
Just out of interest, do you think TVR's are unreliable?
Tyre Tread said:
You made a statement and I was simply asking you to enlighten us about the basis for your opinion. Clearly you are entitle dto your opinion but it would be nice to know on what you base it; prejudice, experience or hearsay.
The only reason I used the cars I listed was, as I am sure you are aware, they are listed as your current and previous cars and assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you were basing your opinion upon a comparison with them.
I'd still like to know why you have given your opinion as you have and upon what it is based.
Just out of interest, do you think TVR's are unreliable?
My opnion is based on having driven them and personal experience. Is that ok with you? The only reason I used the cars I listed was, as I am sure you are aware, they are listed as your current and previous cars and assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you were basing your opinion upon a comparison with them.
I'd still like to know why you have given your opinion as you have and upon what it is based.
Just out of interest, do you think TVR's are unreliable?
Again, TVR's are completely different cars. Im a big fan of them but never had anything to do with them. A friend of mine on the other hand has had several, says he loved them but also describes them as being the most unreliable cars he has owned. So based on that I probably would.
EDIT - Im gonna end this now, just noticed you are a Jag owner and obviously you do like your jag albeit for reasons un-beknown to me but I dont fancy entering a slogging match over it
Edited by JulesB on Thursday 28th June 11:11
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