RE: PH Heroes: Vauxhall Firenza HP 'Droopsnoot'
Discussion
NRJ... That was the one!
And pretty sure I bought 501R from Bernie... He used to race Novas in the hot hatch championship, pretty successful by all accounts.
I am out of the country at the moment, when I get back ill have a root around for photos... Not sure I have any of NRJ, but should have some of 501R. And yes, it did have a full length sunroof.
Cheers
Pad
And pretty sure I bought 501R from Bernie... He used to race Novas in the hot hatch championship, pretty successful by all accounts.
I am out of the country at the moment, when I get back ill have a root around for photos... Not sure I have any of NRJ, but should have some of 501R. And yes, it did have a full length sunroof.
Cheers
Pad
Quick google revealed this... Bernie Bowden, now has his own tuning company.
http://www.nt-r.com/whoarewe.html
http://www.nt-r.com/whoarewe.html
LuS1fer said:
I can't really agree with heightswitch's analysis.
The Capri was the Firenza counterpart, not the Escort and it was more often the Capri that did the track side of Fords' motorsport. the Firenza was also rallied but to lesser success than the Escort but a large part of Ford's success was the drivers they employed. Vauxhall were soon on it with the Chevette HS and Pentti Airikkala was one of my rallying heroes. As with anything, it was what degree of commitment the manufacturers put into the sports that largely dictated the successes. GM also rallied the Opel Kadett GTE to useful effect.
The rarity of the Firenza is relative. You went to Essex, you saw nothing but Fords but round Ellesmere Port, you saw a hell of a lot of Vauxhalls. While the Firenza was, in my view, the better handling car, the Capri had better looks (pre-droopsnoot), a better gearbox, a better "image" as it was linked to the Mustang and above all in 1974 it got a hatchback. In that regard, Vauxhall were ahead of their time as they made 2 door Viva "lifestyle" estates with sloping backs - popular now but not then - but people liked Capris and that was about the end of it. In addition, the 1800 and 2300 slant-fours were always strangled by Strombergs where Ford used big fat Webers and Ford also had a 3 litre, not a 2.3.
It was an odd time, the 70's - people liked defined categories - 1.3, 1.6. 2.0. 2.5 and 3.0. They didn't much take to 1.8s or 2.3s and BL found this with their 1.7's, 1.8s and 2.2s. The Viva was bigger than an Escort but smaller than a Cortina and the Victor was more Granada size so Ford covered the sectors far better.
Exactly: and the RS3100 was £200 cheaper than the dropsnoot with an extra 30 bhp.The Capri was the Firenza counterpart, not the Escort and it was more often the Capri that did the track side of Fords' motorsport. the Firenza was also rallied but to lesser success than the Escort but a large part of Ford's success was the drivers they employed. Vauxhall were soon on it with the Chevette HS and Pentti Airikkala was one of my rallying heroes. As with anything, it was what degree of commitment the manufacturers put into the sports that largely dictated the successes. GM also rallied the Opel Kadett GTE to useful effect.
The rarity of the Firenza is relative. You went to Essex, you saw nothing but Fords but round Ellesmere Port, you saw a hell of a lot of Vauxhalls. While the Firenza was, in my view, the better handling car, the Capri had better looks (pre-droopsnoot), a better gearbox, a better "image" as it was linked to the Mustang and above all in 1974 it got a hatchback. In that regard, Vauxhall were ahead of their time as they made 2 door Viva "lifestyle" estates with sloping backs - popular now but not then - but people liked Capris and that was about the end of it. In addition, the 1800 and 2300 slant-fours were always strangled by Strombergs where Ford used big fat Webers and Ford also had a 3 litre, not a 2.3.
It was an odd time, the 70's - people liked defined categories - 1.3, 1.6. 2.0. 2.5 and 3.0. They didn't much take to 1.8s or 2.3s and BL found this with their 1.7's, 1.8s and 2.2s. The Viva was bigger than an Escort but smaller than a Cortina and the Victor was more Granada size so Ford covered the sectors far better.
Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 5th July 11:18
heightswitch said:
I found your post disrespectful and more importantly innaccurate regarding the relative images of both the cars and sports...
Rallying was quite an amatuerish affair even into the mid seventies...Yes we had certain events such as Clark's win is Esso Blue etc but Generally in the 70's all club circuit based motorsports were often fully televised affairs...Rallying proper began to make more TV appearances in 75 with the coming of the MK 2 Escort. It actually became more popular post the Tour of Britain events etc. Hence many manufacturers moved away from racing toward rallying..Also Hence DTV moving from circuits into Rallying at the end of the 76 season...effectively curtailing Gerry's factory (Dealer) backed racing in Vauxhalls.
Rallying's Golden age was very much the years 77 -82 culminating in the David Sutton Rothmans cars. The firenza pre-dated the MK2 by some 2-3 years...Earlier fords being the Twink and BDA MK1's, again built more as homologated cars for circuit racing, than rallying which they were also very good at. The Mk1 however should be compared with the VIva GT's, Holbays etc which again were derived as homologation cars for circuit racing!!
Ford didn't so much build a good rally car..They did however plough much more money into sport generally compared to GM who felt it didn't give off the family image they were promoting at the time..Hence the dealer network sponsorship as opposed to the direct factory support of Ford.
Fords Capri was as you state a generally a cheaper car I grant you but the Firenza was very much the thoroughbred of the day and exclusive..I never saw many of them even as a kid when they were new..Relative cost therefore did not kill off the Firenza..It was more to do with the culture of the 2 companies presiding at the time during a 5 year period from 75 on!!...relative costs alone seldom dictate the popularity of a car!!
I don't know how any true enthusiast could quote that "most people have forgotten" the most successful Club racer of all time" Phillistine as such was possibly a bad turn of Phrase ?...
Regarding the ford v GM images in rallying..Your memories differ to mine..I remember Mk2's giving way to Chevettes, Asconas and Manta 400's before 4WD became the norm.. all of these including fords were on my lists of cars to own..If anything beyond 81 GM had a much greater presence in rallying then ford who pulled away in 1980!
N
I just can't agree here, and I'm alos certain that anyone who worked at Ford's AVO would be pretty miffeed at being called amateurish. But more seriously.Rallying was quite an amatuerish affair even into the mid seventies...Yes we had certain events such as Clark's win is Esso Blue etc but Generally in the 70's all club circuit based motorsports were often fully televised affairs...Rallying proper began to make more TV appearances in 75 with the coming of the MK 2 Escort. It actually became more popular post the Tour of Britain events etc. Hence many manufacturers moved away from racing toward rallying..Also Hence DTV moving from circuits into Rallying at the end of the 76 season...effectively curtailing Gerry's factory (Dealer) backed racing in Vauxhalls.
Rallying's Golden age was very much the years 77 -82 culminating in the David Sutton Rothmans cars. The firenza pre-dated the MK2 by some 2-3 years...Earlier fords being the Twink and BDA MK1's, again built more as homologated cars for circuit racing, than rallying which they were also very good at. The Mk1 however should be compared with the VIva GT's, Holbays etc which again were derived as homologation cars for circuit racing!!
Ford didn't so much build a good rally car..They did however plough much more money into sport generally compared to GM who felt it didn't give off the family image they were promoting at the time..Hence the dealer network sponsorship as opposed to the direct factory support of Ford.
Fords Capri was as you state a generally a cheaper car I grant you but the Firenza was very much the thoroughbred of the day and exclusive..I never saw many of them even as a kid when they were new..Relative cost therefore did not kill off the Firenza..It was more to do with the culture of the 2 companies presiding at the time during a 5 year period from 75 on!!...relative costs alone seldom dictate the popularity of a car!!
I don't know how any true enthusiast could quote that "most people have forgotten" the most successful Club racer of all time" Phillistine as such was possibly a bad turn of Phrase ?...
Regarding the ford v GM images in rallying..Your memories differ to mine..I remember Mk2's giving way to Chevettes, Asconas and Manta 400's before 4WD became the norm.. all of these including fords were on my lists of cars to own..If anything beyond 81 GM had a much greater presence in rallying then ford who pulled away in 1980!
N
I'm not decrying the talents of Mr Marshall - I still remember the epic race where he gavea Ford Falcon an epic run for it's money in a vastly under-powered Cortina.. It's just that if we drew a straw poll I'm sure more people would recognise the name of Hannu Miokla over Gerry anytime.
I don't ever remember much televised club racing in the 70's, hell they didn't even cover every GP in the 70's. I'm sure that there wasn't that much more coverage of rallying either. But events such as the London to Sydney, the Monte Carlo, London to Mexico often used to be featured in the news.
And how can you say that Ford did not build a good rally car when they dominated the sport from the late 60's to the early 80's?
The Firenza may have been the thoroughbred, but it was more expensive and less powerful than either the RS3100 and the standard 3 litre Capri - of course both of which had the added cache of a V6 motor. Sure it had the ZF five speed box and better suspension - but was that alone enough?
And that is what I am saying - it wasn't. Remember Vauxhall expected to sell a shed load more of these than they actually did; it wasn't meant to be exclusive. Compared to the Escort and Capri it was a marketing disaster.
Ford capitalised on their rally success with the Escort Mexico, the RS 1600, RS 1800, RS 2000 far better than Vauxhall manged with either the Firenza or the Chevette.
radlet6 said:
The Firenza may have been the thoroughbred, but it was more expensive and less powerful than either the RS3100 and the standard 3 litre Capri - of course both of which had the added cache of a V6 motor. Sure it had the ZF five speed box and better suspension - but was that alone enough?
The 3.0 Capri II only made 138hp and weighed 1145 kg so they were pretty even. The 3.0 Essex was also not known for revving and a lazy V6 wasn't really what a sports car was about.But like you say, the cheque books spoke and the car was doomed. However, it is worth reminding ourselves that the Firenza was a bit radical for the conservative 70's motorist who was out buying Datsun 120Ys and Morris Marinas.
It's also worth noting that 70's parents were the cause of the late 50s and 60s baby boomers so there were plenty of kids to feed. I was one of 4. I knew a lot of families with 4 kids. Probably why Cortinas were so popular.
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 6th July 18:47
LuS1fer said:
The 3.0 Capri II only made 138hp and weighed 1145 kg so they were pretty even. The 3.0 Essex was also not known for revving and a lazy V6 wasn't really what a sports car was about.
But like you say, the cheque books spoke and the car was doomed. However, it is worth reminding ourselves that the Firenza was a bit radical for the conservative 70's motorist who was out buying Datsun 120Ys and Morris Marinas.
It's also worth noting that 70's parents were the cause of the late 50s and 60s baby boomers so there were plenty of kids to feed. I was one of 4. I knew a lot of families with 4 kids. Probably why Cortinas were so popular.
Without doubt. However, the sound of a V6 is so much more evocative than even the highest reving 4 in line.But like you say, the cheque books spoke and the car was doomed. However, it is worth reminding ourselves that the Firenza was a bit radical for the conservative 70's motorist who was out buying Datsun 120Ys and Morris Marinas.
It's also worth noting that 70's parents were the cause of the late 50s and 60s baby boomers so there were plenty of kids to feed. I was one of 4. I knew a lot of families with 4 kids. Probably why Cortinas were so popular.
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 6th July 18:47
radlet6 said:
LuS1fer said:
The 3.0 Capri II only made 138hp and weighed 1145 kg so they were pretty even. The 3.0 Essex was also not known for revving and a lazy V6 wasn't really what a sports car was about.
But like you say, the cheque books spoke and the car was doomed. However, it is worth reminding ourselves that the Firenza was a bit radical for the conservative 70's motorist who was out buying Datsun 120Ys and Morris Marinas.
It's also worth noting that 70's parents were the cause of the late 50s and 60s baby boomers so there were plenty of kids to feed. I was one of 4. I knew a lot of families with 4 kids. Probably why Cortinas were so popular.
Without doubt. However, the sound of a V6 is so much more evocative than even the highest reving 4 in line.But like you say, the cheque books spoke and the car was doomed. However, it is worth reminding ourselves that the Firenza was a bit radical for the conservative 70's motorist who was out buying Datsun 120Ys and Morris Marinas.
It's also worth noting that 70's parents were the cause of the late 50s and 60s baby boomers so there were plenty of kids to feed. I was one of 4. I knew a lot of families with 4 kids. Probably why Cortinas were so popular.
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 6th July 18:47
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff