RE: Damon Hill against 80MPH speed limit
Discussion
It would be worth knowing some accident statistics i.e. how many newly qualified drivers are involved in motorway accidents within six months of passing their test, that sort of thing. It would make the debate more meaningful to have a bit of evidence. From what I've observed, a considerably percentage of drivers on motorways are ill prepared for the difference in speed, lack lane discipline and are unaware of the rules of motorway driving - compulsory motorway driving tuition would be a good idea, it's ludicrous that someone can pass their test then, with the minimum of driving experience, immediately be let loose on a motorway.
idiot!Damon Hill thinks there are too many f*ckwits driving too fast and not concentrating or being capable of not crashing into other vehicles. National accidents stats seem to reinforce his observations.
Most motorways users can't even obey the first rule of motoring : Keep left at all times except when overtaking. Why? Becuas they have to interact with the vehicle and road ahead - that requires concentration.
Thing with Hill is that he isn't afraid to stand up and be counted - good on 'im. As for people misquoting or selectively quoting - sums up the UK attitude to not wanting to accept reality or be accountable.
We (in the UK) can't drive properly on M-ways.
Most motorways users can't even obey the first rule of motoring : Keep left at all times except when overtaking. Why? Becuas they have to interact with the vehicle and road ahead - that requires concentration.
Thing with Hill is that he isn't afraid to stand up and be counted - good on 'im. As for people misquoting or selectively quoting - sums up the UK attitude to not wanting to accept reality or be accountable.
We (in the UK) can't drive properly on M-ways.
FWDRacer said:
Damon Hill thinks there are too many f*ckwits driving too fast and not concentrating or being capable of not crashing into other vehicles. National accidents stats seem to reinforce his observations.
Most motorways users can't even obey the first rule of motoring : Keep left at all times except when overtaking. Why? Becuas they have to interact with the vehicle and road ahead - that requires concentration.
Thing with Hill is that he isn't afraid to stand up and be counted - good on 'im. As for people misquoting or selectively quoting - sums up the UK attitude to not wanting to accept reality or be accountable.
Well said Most motorways users can't even obey the first rule of motoring : Keep left at all times except when overtaking. Why? Becuas they have to interact with the vehicle and road ahead - that requires concentration.
Thing with Hill is that he isn't afraid to stand up and be counted - good on 'im. As for people misquoting or selectively quoting - sums up the UK attitude to not wanting to accept reality or be accountable.
Driving fast (anywhere) is one thing. Knowing what you're doing and being mindful of conditions and other road users is something else entirely, and this is where better driver education SHOULD focus.
More often than not, the key problem with Motorway driving isn't people driving at 80ish mph, but driving too close to the car in front, jabbering into their phones, or worse, texting (don't get me started)
Not having the faintest idea what lane they should be in though, is the thing that frustrates the hell out of me - talk to anyone about a Motorway journey, and they'll tell you how they get on at a slip road, then go straight to the Fast Lane, then sit there until it's time to exit.
What's a Fast Lane? THERE'S NO SUCH THING. It's Nearside, Centre, Outside. The amount of people who think they're fine sitting in the middle lane at 65mph because the nearside lane is 'for slow cars'. Right there is the main cause of undertaking and bottlenecks.
More often than not, the key problem with Motorway driving isn't people driving at 80ish mph, but driving too close to the car in front, jabbering into their phones, or worse, texting (don't get me started)
Not having the faintest idea what lane they should be in though, is the thing that frustrates the hell out of me - talk to anyone about a Motorway journey, and they'll tell you how they get on at a slip road, then go straight to the Fast Lane, then sit there until it's time to exit.
What's a Fast Lane? THERE'S NO SUCH THING. It's Nearside, Centre, Outside. The amount of people who think they're fine sitting in the middle lane at 65mph because the nearside lane is 'for slow cars'. Right there is the main cause of undertaking and bottlenecks.
I've driven extensively along the motorways over the years, most of the time at considerable speed.
The reality is, for most 'competent' drivers, whence reaching speeds of 70, 80 or more, your concentration improves as you become more 'aware' of the task you are performing and the concentration it demands of you.
Slow things down and literally people start falling asleep behind the wheel, regardless of how tired they are. This is defined not in the conventional sense of falling asleep, but your concentration waning to the point that you are concentrating on anything and everything except your journey.
The countless times I've witnessed people pulling out at slower speeds, without a care in the world for who's beside them or coming up behind them. You could argue that when going faster its your fault, but this just isn't true. We are all taught when we learn to drive that it is your responsibility to check your mirrors and watch what is happening and not make manoeuvres hastily.
The term 'speed kills' has always 'made me shudder' because its seldom the fault of speed. It is nearly always the fault of poor driving in the general sense; lack of positional checks, lack of signalling, lack of planning.... just lack of ability all round.
One of the problems we have is that they will literally give anyone a license these days, it is just not hard enough to pass your test. Why is this? Probably some kind of incentive to keep more and more people coming to the road, improving demand on motor vehicles and keeping that side of industry going.... oh and lets not forget about the good ol' duty on fuel.
We'd be helping the environment enormously but not dishing out 'free licenses for all' (or at least it seems like it!) I am tired to the point of insanity at how competent drivers continue to be penalised for the actions of feeble.
There are various ways to tackle this, but the argument is always ... how do you police it? Oh.... and there's the other side to all this... the potential revenue loss for the police.
Instead of endorsing a clamp down on competent driving, we should be encouraging the police to 'actually actively police' bad driving. On Spot fines, three-strikes and you're out policies (or temp ban.)
If you can't follow the most basic of driving rules, then you either need a good schooling, or removing from the roads.
So, with all due respect Mr. Hill, I applaud your abilities as a racing driver, but this blatant attempt to hide the eco-agenda citing 'stress' and poor driving habits I find completely repugnant.
It has to be said however that... really.. would an 80mph limit really change anything. Every day I use the motorway and every day most people are already doing 80-90 and managing it quite fine (save the odd re-schooling candidate who drives way to close!)
OK. Rant over... as you were people
AJB
The reality is, for most 'competent' drivers, whence reaching speeds of 70, 80 or more, your concentration improves as you become more 'aware' of the task you are performing and the concentration it demands of you.
Slow things down and literally people start falling asleep behind the wheel, regardless of how tired they are. This is defined not in the conventional sense of falling asleep, but your concentration waning to the point that you are concentrating on anything and everything except your journey.
The countless times I've witnessed people pulling out at slower speeds, without a care in the world for who's beside them or coming up behind them. You could argue that when going faster its your fault, but this just isn't true. We are all taught when we learn to drive that it is your responsibility to check your mirrors and watch what is happening and not make manoeuvres hastily.
The term 'speed kills' has always 'made me shudder' because its seldom the fault of speed. It is nearly always the fault of poor driving in the general sense; lack of positional checks, lack of signalling, lack of planning.... just lack of ability all round.
One of the problems we have is that they will literally give anyone a license these days, it is just not hard enough to pass your test. Why is this? Probably some kind of incentive to keep more and more people coming to the road, improving demand on motor vehicles and keeping that side of industry going.... oh and lets not forget about the good ol' duty on fuel.
We'd be helping the environment enormously but not dishing out 'free licenses for all' (or at least it seems like it!) I am tired to the point of insanity at how competent drivers continue to be penalised for the actions of feeble.
There are various ways to tackle this, but the argument is always ... how do you police it? Oh.... and there's the other side to all this... the potential revenue loss for the police.
Instead of endorsing a clamp down on competent driving, we should be encouraging the police to 'actually actively police' bad driving. On Spot fines, three-strikes and you're out policies (or temp ban.)
If you can't follow the most basic of driving rules, then you either need a good schooling, or removing from the roads.
So, with all due respect Mr. Hill, I applaud your abilities as a racing driver, but this blatant attempt to hide the eco-agenda citing 'stress' and poor driving habits I find completely repugnant.
It has to be said however that... really.. would an 80mph limit really change anything. Every day I use the motorway and every day most people are already doing 80-90 and managing it quite fine (save the odd re-schooling candidate who drives way to close!)
OK. Rant over... as you were people
AJB
kambites said:
Why would it be different than banning new car drivers from towing big trailers?
Mind you, I still think it should be possible to get ANPR cameras to issue automatic points and/or fines for tailgating - if you pass two cameras in a row within two seconds of the same car in front of you, you get an instant three points? That'd solve a lot of the problem.
ETA: You could use them to issue fines for poor lane discipline too.
Trouble with that is 99% of the time when you leave a big enough gap some turd pulls into it for no reason.Mind you, I still think it should be possible to get ANPR cameras to issue automatic points and/or fines for tailgating - if you pass two cameras in a row within two seconds of the same car in front of you, you get an instant three points? That'd solve a lot of the problem.
ETA: You could use them to issue fines for poor lane discipline too.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd July 09:39
The current driving test has so many flaws. It should be graduated so that anyone who passes the test cannot in theory get in an Enzo and drive it. First test should allow the candidate to drive cars up to say insurance group 6. If you want to drive something with more performance then advanced testing should take place. Motorway driving should be in the test along with night driving and driving in adverse weather conditions. Mandatory refresher courses should be also undertaken during the course of a driver's life. It's all to easy to be taught how to pass a test but driving is another matter. Nothing wrong with an 80mph limit if the people driving are competent but that's sadly not the case in the majority of drivers these days who take no pride in improving their skills and view it purely as a means of getting from A to B without thinking of what they are doing.
There is a really simple answer, concentration.
At 70, motorways are extremely boring, the world slows down, especially in a new well insulated car, so you start to look at the cows and sheep, hoping to spot a pretty one.
At 90, you need to concentrate a lot more, this makes me a safer driver. I have driven for 30 years at 90 odd on motorways, overtaken plenty of marked and unmarked cars, slowing a little when I do, to show them I am paying attention, never even been pulled.
On a motorbike, laws are irrelevant, I refuse to take my eyes off the road and so ride at whatever speed I feel like, it is a matter between me and my maker, crashing at any significant speed often has far worse consequences than any law, so stay safe and keep 100% observation on the road ahead.
At 70, motorways are extremely boring, the world slows down, especially in a new well insulated car, so you start to look at the cows and sheep, hoping to spot a pretty one.
At 90, you need to concentrate a lot more, this makes me a safer driver. I have driven for 30 years at 90 odd on motorways, overtaken plenty of marked and unmarked cars, slowing a little when I do, to show them I am paying attention, never even been pulled.
On a motorbike, laws are irrelevant, I refuse to take my eyes off the road and so ride at whatever speed I feel like, it is a matter between me and my maker, crashing at any significant speed often has far worse consequences than any law, so stay safe and keep 100% observation on the road ahead.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff