RE: Spotted: Renault Megane R26R

[kambites]

don logan said:

kambites said:

I don't really see the point in a two-seater hatchback. I know it's very, very good for what it is, but can it really compete with the best sports cars in its price bracket as a drivers' car?

Drive one!

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/240343/top_...

Yes I'd like to have a go in one. I've driven lots of other very, very highly rated FWD hatchback type cars like the Integra and none of them are even in the same league as the best sports cars; perhaps this is the exception, but I can't quite make myself believe it.

Oddly I've never seen it group-tested against sports cars, just against hot hatches which, to my mind, completely misses the point. I've never understood Evo's "top XXX drivers cars" things, but I do know that I completely disagree with most of them. They clearly have quotas of different types of cars that they have to have in each section of the list.

[300bhp/ton]

ewenm said:

To me it feels just one step too far - the point of a hot hatch is combining everyday practicality with good performance. With the cage and only 2 seats this isn't really that practical any more. It't can't fulfill the dual roles of family hack during the week and b-road blast at weekends.

I used to think this too and truly couldn't get my head around the R26.r, but I did some research, lots of reading and so on. And somehow stumbled across a vid with one of the Renault engineers for the project.

I've now completely revised my opinion of the this car. And the thing I struggled with was it isn't a hatchback. Ok it looks like one, but that (I'm guessing) is due to a budgeting restraint set by the bean counters. But the engineers made it a "two seater". They want it to be seen as a performance coupe built for speed and handling.

I think you can see this want in cars like the Clio V6. Evidently with the Clio they where given the budget or at least were un-supervised enough to created a totally impractical expensive to build bespoke outrageous car.

This time round you get the feeling they were told, it must stay fwd and you can't mess with the main structure. So apart from these two items they seem to have gone to town and made a stonking performance car, albeit in the shape of a chavved hatch up sheeps clothing.

But I truly admire the principle behind the car and what they were wanting to attain with it.

I'm sure if you'd given the same guys a clean sheet of paper and similar wants you'd have ended up with something looking like the Renault Spyder.

[ewenm]

300bhp/ton said:

I used to think this too and truly couldn't get my head around the R26.r, but I did some research, lots of reading and so on. And somehow stumbled across a vid with one of the Renault engineers for the project.

I've now completely revised my opinion of the this car. And the thing I struggled with was it isn't a hatchback. Ok it looks like one, but that (I'm guessing) is due to a budgeting restraint set by the bean counters. But the engineers made it a "two seater". They want it to be seen as a performance coupe built for speed and handling.

I think you can see this want in cars like the Clio V6. Evidently with the Clio they where given the budget or at least were un-supervised enough to created a totally impractical expensive to build bespoke outrageous car.

This time round you get the feeling they were told, it must stay fwd and you can't mess with the main structure. So apart from these two items they seem to have gone to town and made a stonking performance car, albeit in the shape of a chavved hatch up sheeps clothing.

But I truly admire the principle behind the car and what they were wanting to attain with it.

I'm sure if you'd given the same guys a clean sheet of paper and similar wants you'd have ended up with something looking like the Renault Spyder.

Which is all very well, but they still need to sell the cars. The sales figures in the article would suggest that even though it's a great car, it appears it failed to attract customers.

I think it's a great car, but am entirely unsurprised it failed to sell well.

[don logan]

kambites said:

don logan said:

kambites said:

I don't really see the point in a two-seater hatchback. I know it's very, very good for what it is, but can it really compete with the best sports cars in its price bracket as a drivers' car?

Drive one!

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/240343/top_...

Yes I'd like to have a go in one. I've driven lots of other very, very highly rated FWD hatchback type cars like the Integra and none of them are even in the same league as the best sports cars; perhaps this is the exception, but I can't quite make myself believe it.

Oddly I've never seen it group-tested against sports cars, just against hot hatches which, to my mind, completely misses the point. I've never understood Evo's "top XXX drivers cars" things, but I do know that I completely disagree with most of them. They clearly have quotas of different types of cars that they have to have in each section of the list.

This is a quote from Autocar

"Autocar chose to pit Mégane Renaultsport R26.R against a £65,000 Porsche Cayman S, a mismatch on paper but a much closer contest on Welsh roads according to reviewer Matt Prior.

Again the Welsh roads provide the test, where, “the Renault kept the Porsche in sight all the time, without even having to give it a proper thrashing.” Prior is yet another reviewer to be wowed by the chassis performance, saying: “The R26.R’s body movements are supremely well controlled, its visibility is superior to the Porsche’s, and even in mucky conditions the Renault can ultimately carry at least as much speed through a corner as the Porsche. Given its broad powerband, it’s usually faster between points.”

Although giving a narrow verdict in favour of the Cayman S, Prior says: “That it has come as close as this – closer than I thought the Audi TTS and BMW 135i Coupé were to the 2.7 Cayman – is a heck of an achievement for the Renault. Especially at the price. At 23 grand there has rarely been such a brilliant sports car.”

Surely a Cayman R fits the sportscar category?

I think EVO would have made it clear that the chosen cars were best in their categories.

[kambites]

Hmm, if it's nearly but not quite a match for the Cayman S then I stand by my point. I can't imagine why I'd ever buy this over an Elise (which vastly betters the Cayman S as a drivers' car, to my mind). I suppose the Renault has a bigger boot if that's important.

I don't deny that the Renault is an absolutely extraordinary car considering what they started with; I just can't imagine a situation in which I'd want to buy one. It seems that not many people could, if they only sold a couple of hundred.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd July 15:07

[don logan]

kambites said:

Hmm, if it's nearly but not quite a match for the Cayman R then I stand by my point. I can't imagine why I'd ever buy this over an Elise (which vastly betters the Cayman R as a drivers' car, to my mind).

We`ll ignore this bit then "“the Renault kept the Porsche in sight all the time, without even having to give it a proper thrashing" :-)

[kambites]

don logan said:

kambites said:

Hmm, if it's nearly but not quite a match for the Cayman R then I stand by my point. I can't imagine why I'd ever buy this over an Elise (which vastly betters the Cayman R as a drivers' car, to my mind).

We`ll ignore this bit then "“the Renault kept the Porsche in sight all the time, without even having to give it a proper thrashing" :-)

Yes but they gave the final verdict in the Cayman's favour.

And it was an S not an R. I can't read.

Still if you liked yours, I guess that's what matters.

[300bhp/ton]

ewenm said:

Which is all very well, but they still need to sell the cars. The sales figures in the article would suggest that even though it's a great car, it appears it failed to attract customers.

I think it's a great car, but am entirely unsurprised it failed to sell well.

Maybe. Although with only 450 cars in total and I think only 230 for the UK market. I suspect it was more of a marketing tool than any real attempt to actually sell the model. How many extra normal R26's or even Clio's where sold off the back of the publicity of the R26.r and how many extra people did it get through the show room doors that might not otherwise haven ventured near the Renault dealership?

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

Maybe. Although with only 450 cars in total and I think only 230 for the UK market. I suspect it was more of a marketing tool than any real attempt to actually sell the model. How many extra normal R26's or even Clio's where sold off the back of the publicity of the R26.r and how many extra people did it get through the show room doors that might not otherwise haven ventured near the Renault dealership?

I suspect that's true, and in that respect it probably worked because it certainly generated a lot of press interest.

[don logan]

kambites said:

don logan said:

kambites said:

Hmm, if it's nearly but not quite a match for the Cayman R then I stand by my point. I can't imagine why I'd ever buy this over an Elise (which vastly betters the Cayman R as a drivers' car, to my mind).

We`ll ignore this bit then "“the Renault kept the Porsche in sight all the time, without even having to give it a proper thrashing" :-)

Yes but they gave the final verdict in the Cayman's favour.

And it was an S not an R. I can't read.

Yes they did but you asked whether it can cut it against the best sports cars and I think it can easily live with them, which is why I used that Autocar test as an example, not that it is THE best!

[kambites]

don logan said:

Yes they did but you asked whether it can cut it against the best sports cars and I think it can easily live with them, which is why I used that Autocar test as an example, not that it is THE best!

If you consider the Cayman to be one of the "best sports cars" then fine. I don't. To my mind, the Cayman is massively compromised as a drivers car by Porsche's attempts to make it a viable GT as well as a sports car.

[don logan]

kambites said:

300bhp/ton said:

Maybe. Although with only 450 cars in total and I think only 230 for the UK market. I suspect it was more of a marketing tool than any real attempt to actually sell the model. How many extra normal R26's or even Clio's where sold off the back of the publicity of the R26.r and how many extra people did it get through the show room doors that might not otherwise haven ventured near the Renault dealership?

I suspect that's true, and in that respect it probably worked because it certainly generated a lot of press interest.

That`s for sure, why else would they put seats in it that cost £3.5k EACH, they were never going to make money with the R by only making 450 of them, they managed to make something that drove really well but also got them LOADS of press, we are STILL talking about them!

[300bhp/ton]

don logan said:

kambites said:

Hmm, if it's nearly but not quite a match for the Cayman R then I stand by my point. I can't imagine why I'd ever buy this over an Elise (which vastly betters the Cayman R as a drivers' car, to my mind).

We`ll ignore this bit then "“the Renault kept the Porsche in sight all the time, without even having to give it a proper thrashing" :-)

But what's that got to do with being a good sports car? Similar weight and power and even closer power to weight. Is it really surprising they are similarly paced.

I too believe the R26r is very good. But I can see the point Kambites it making. It just doesn't look or feel the same as a finely balanced RWD sports car.

[kambites]

Indeed. Performance, be it straight line or through corners, is not important to me in a road car. I buy my sports cars because they're fun, not because they're fast. Obviously that's a deeply personal thing, though.

[don logan]

kambites said:

don logan said:

Yes they did but you asked whether it can cut it against the best sports cars and I think it can easily live with them, which is why I used that Autocar test as an example, not that it is THE best!

If you consider the Cayman to be one of the "best sports cars" then fine. I don't.

Honestly, I`ve never driven one but having heard so many journos remark on how it is Porsche`s best chassis I assumed it wasn`t exactly kaka!

[kambites]

don logan said:

Honestly, I`ve never driven one but having heard so many journos remark on how it is Porsche`s best chassis I assumed it wasn`t exactly kaka!

No it's certainly not a bad car, quite the opposite in fact - it's a fantastic blend of sports car and GT; but it's not set up to be an out-and-out driving tool in quite the same way that the Renault is.

ETA: I'll have to have a go in one one day, but having been disappointed over and over again by hatchback derived cars that people claim are genuine drivers' cars, I'm not holding my breath. To be honest, my intense dislike of turbochargers will put me off it, even if it has the best chassis in the world.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd July 15:27

[Matt0812]

Hi guys, couple of alterations are now in the article thanks to your insightful contributions! This car will have air-con because all R26.Rs do (duh...) and out of the 450 R26.Rs made, Renault UK were given 230 to sell. Whilst there are rumours that not all sold, we have no reliable figures on this so didn't want to commit! The fact that just 73 are still in the UK would suggest a few didn't find buyers, even allowing for those perhaps exported.

[don logan]

kambites said:

Indeed. Performance, be it straight line or through corners, is not important to me in a road car. I buy my sports cars because they're fun, not because they're fast. Obviously that's a deeply personal thing, though.

I couldn`t agree more, the first time i drove an R26.R i drove it back to back with a 996 T4, I wasn`t even thinking of buying another car but I realised that I kept thinking about and telling people about the Renault and how much fun it was and I hadn`t really bothered with the 996 T4, I then thought that I should buy one before they had all been tracked to death!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Matt0812 said:

Hi guys, couple of alterations are now in the article thanks to your insightful contributions! This car will have air-con because all R26.Rs do (duh...) and out of the 450 R26.Rs made, Renault UK were given 230 to sell. Whilst there are rumours that not all sold, we have no reliable figures on this so didn't want to commit! The fact that just 73 are still in the UK would suggest a few didn't find buyers, even allowing for those perhaps exported.

us (ex) owners have:
out of 230 renualt uk were alocated they managed to sell 159

[kambites]

What happened to the others?