RE: PH Blog: Why US muscle still rules - for now
Discussion
LuS1fer said:
The IRS on the Mustang Cobra was compromised by having to use the same mounts as the live axle - which most drag racers immediately refitted.
Yes I beleive you are correct, the IRS setup bolted onto the same four link mounting points that the SRA did.chevy-stu said:
BeirutTaxi said:
Could the BMW M6 arguably be Europe's version of a muscle car?
Nope.... Too complicated, too expensiveI could probably buy the entire axle setup for an 06 Mustang for the price of a diff alone for an M6.
Anything aimed at the premium end of the market, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Aston Martins, Jaguars etc. cannot be classed as a muscle car.
swerni said:
Don't they rust? 
No.Early ones had a corrosion issue on the front bonnet welds due to contamination (the bonnet as you well know is alloy). Mine has never had this issue though and it's a 2005.
The thing is they are so much lighter than Camaros that they practically fly anyway.
Great visibility too.
The stupid thing, however, is that even when you put them on the market, people still don't buy them so a lot of the "I'd love one" bravado is more often wishful thinking.
calculate import duty, shipping and total in GBP on this...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2010-MUSTANG-GT500-...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2010-MUSTANG-GT500-...
I think the bit that everyone seems to miss in reviews is the availability of aftermarket parts. In the US you can buy a better aftermarket version of everything or just OE spec equivalent. You can upgrade you muscle car to whatever your wallet can afford.
European cars just aren't as easy to upgrade (cheaply). You can't even buy bearings or pistons now for half the cars Ford and Vauxhall sell in the UK.
Also depreciation is low compared to a equivalent standard UK car.
European cars just aren't as easy to upgrade (cheaply). You can't even buy bearings or pistons now for half the cars Ford and Vauxhall sell in the UK.
Also depreciation is low compared to a equivalent standard UK car.
Gorbyrev said:
....... My prediction is that slowly but surely new tech such as twin turbo V6's (see Jay Leno's Sema Camaro for example) will change the horsepower debate from capacity to power output ......
Interesting point, and consIdering the power and performance of the mid 80's Buick grand national, then the groundbreaking Syclone and Typhoon trucks, aLl v6 turbos, i'm suprised they never pushed this route too.... Maybe it's still to come ! I recently took a trip to a music festival in Palm Springs, California and I hired a Dodge Challenger SRT-8. It was an absolute hoot to drive and was a great looking car. The thing that surprised me the most was the interior build quality, definitely up there with Audi TT series 1 and BMW m3 E46 in my book. Awesome stereo too. If they didn't look ridiculous in the UK i would buy one in a heartbeat
aeropilot said:
V8 FOU said:
These are sooo cool....
Live axles etc. So why do people get dewey eyed about Mk2 Escorts, but dislike these?
Because they fundamentally ignore the reason why Ford still put a live axle under the 'stang.... because most buyers still want it.Live axles etc. So why do people get dewey eyed about Mk2 Escorts, but dislike these?
Drag racing is king in the US, not windy-roady-handling stuff, and a mega strong live axle is still the king when it comes to drag strip action. You only have to look at the product listings from Strange, Currie etc.
SprintSpeciale said:
LuS1fer said:
It wasn't too good to be true in 2005 when we were getting over 2 dollars to the £ and Gordon later gave us a 15% VAT holiday. That enabled the sharper of our number to get hold of these cars for bargain prices.
They're not perfect, for sure, but they are such a refreshing antidote to all things utterly competent and yet blatantly banal. The bargains were widely advertised too - Autocar imported one and ran it. EVO imported one and ran it. They may have ultimately failed the "not so much a scalpel as a Stanley Knife" test butwhen did a Stanley Knife ever fail to achieve the appropriate incision?
We had all the mockings of Clarkson over the live axle but even he had to give a nod of respect to a supercharged Roush while pointing out the obvious - that the way heavier GT500 with an iron block engine didn't handle as well. It also pulled a respectable 1:28 out of the TG track and not even pitting it against a supercharged Exige on semi-slicks could make it look like it truly lost.
The fact is that the 2005 Mustang changed the game a bit and actually dished up a car that steered well and provided a handy 300 horses (not that that was new as Ford and Chevy had been offering 305-325hp since the 90s. Yet they managed to retain that character and the fun aspect carefully laundered out of most modern cars by excessive competence which was supplanted by gadgets and slightly plusher interiors as the new entertainment.
The standard car lacked much by way of suspension control but new suspension kits are sold by the bucketload and knockdown prices in the US. I paid $550 plus duties for 4 adjustable dampers and £205 for Roush springs and the addition of a supercharger netter a "mere" 460hp which as any PH'er will know is barely adequate to pass muster these days.
It's a shame that the dollar got stronger and it's a shame we all got busted with 10% import duty and 20% VAT on top of that as it deprives us of the latest and possibly greatest of the breed.
However, you can't put a price on exclusivity and nothing ever comes close to matching the road presence of these cars in the UK, they are blue collar heroes for the working man in theory and never get anything but positive responses, even 7 years after I bought mine. I think if they were common, that would spoil it a bit so I'm happy to live with themyths and prejudices people harbour about these cars.
Whether the big horsepower continues or not, I think these are the last of the breed. For too long, Ford have been referencing the BMW M3 which, fortunately, has been getting bigger and bigger but I think the next gen, apart from IRS, will be downscaled and Europeanised for a global market and that is what will not so much ruin it as homogenise it....so yes, ruin it.
This is the sort of intelligent, considered and informed comment that keeps me coming back to PH.They're not perfect, for sure, but they are such a refreshing antidote to all things utterly competent and yet blatantly banal. The bargains were widely advertised too - Autocar imported one and ran it. EVO imported one and ran it. They may have ultimately failed the "not so much a scalpel as a Stanley Knife" test butwhen did a Stanley Knife ever fail to achieve the appropriate incision?
We had all the mockings of Clarkson over the live axle but even he had to give a nod of respect to a supercharged Roush while pointing out the obvious - that the way heavier GT500 with an iron block engine didn't handle as well. It also pulled a respectable 1:28 out of the TG track and not even pitting it against a supercharged Exige on semi-slicks could make it look like it truly lost.
The fact is that the 2005 Mustang changed the game a bit and actually dished up a car that steered well and provided a handy 300 horses (not that that was new as Ford and Chevy had been offering 305-325hp since the 90s. Yet they managed to retain that character and the fun aspect carefully laundered out of most modern cars by excessive competence which was supplanted by gadgets and slightly plusher interiors as the new entertainment.
The standard car lacked much by way of suspension control but new suspension kits are sold by the bucketload and knockdown prices in the US. I paid $550 plus duties for 4 adjustable dampers and £205 for Roush springs and the addition of a supercharger netter a "mere" 460hp which as any PH'er will know is barely adequate to pass muster these days.
It's a shame that the dollar got stronger and it's a shame we all got busted with 10% import duty and 20% VAT on top of that as it deprives us of the latest and possibly greatest of the breed.
However, you can't put a price on exclusivity and nothing ever comes close to matching the road presence of these cars in the UK, they are blue collar heroes for the working man in theory and never get anything but positive responses, even 7 years after I bought mine. I think if they were common, that would spoil it a bit so I'm happy to live with themyths and prejudices people harbour about these cars.
Whether the big horsepower continues or not, I think these are the last of the breed. For too long, Ford have been referencing the BMW M3 which, fortunately, has been getting bigger and bigger but I think the next gen, apart from IRS, will be downscaled and Europeanised for a global market and that is what will not so much ruin it as homogenise it....so yes, ruin it.
American muscle cars are not really my thing, but reading posts like this reminds me why others are, and why there are so many different flavours of petrolhead.
Excellent and insightful post LuS1fer
sideways sid said:
aeropilot said:
V8 FOU said:
These are sooo cool....
Live axles etc. So why do people get dewey eyed about Mk2 Escorts, but dislike these?
Because they fundamentally ignore the reason why Ford still put a live axle under the 'stang.... because most buyers still want it.Live axles etc. So why do people get dewey eyed about Mk2 Escorts, but dislike these?
Drag racing is king in the US, not windy-roady-handling stuff, and a mega strong live axle is still the king when it comes to drag strip action. You only have to look at the product listings from Strange, Currie etc.
swerni said:
closer to £60k than £35k
It may be $56k in the US, but once you add in Import tax, shipping, VAT and conversion its going to be circa £ for $
Comments like this are utterly misleading and completely wrong
Hardly - if I moved to the USA right now, the car would cost me £35k. Who said anything about importing them to the UK?It may be $56k in the US, but once you add in Import tax, shipping, VAT and conversion its going to be circa £ for $
Comments like this are utterly misleading and completely wrong
LuS1fer said:
swerni said:
you could by a standard second hand V8 Camaro and Supercharge it for £35k
...or just buy one of the many already supercharged Mustangs for around £20k or buy one and supercharge it for that price...although other mods do need to follow the 50% increase in power.Denver09 said:
Why pay for something you do not need. When driving in the US you are either in traffic (if you live in LA) or on a straight road somewhere. Traffic light, point and squirt, traffic light....etc
Oh. Never driven on any of the roads along the coast or over mountains? Even in flat boring Indiana I managed to find lots of lovely twisty roads.There is more to driving in the US than cities and the interstates.
TheOrangePeril said:
Hardly - if I moved to the USA right now, the car would cost me £35k. Who said anything about importing them to the UK?
No it wouldn't - they don't accept anything but dollars in the US, I think you'll find. So if you moved to the US, that's what you'd be earning and paying with. This ridiculous conversion that so many on here insist on doing to try and argue that cars like this are 'cheap' is a joke.Both the GT500 and ZL1 are 55k cars + dealer fee/title/tag and all the other s
t that gets piled on. Captain Muppet said:
Yes there is, there is better technology. Just because a statement rhymes doesn't mean it's true.
That would be true if the equivalent Euro engines developing the same power were more frugal. They're not. There is also no replacement for achieving the same end with greater displacement and simplicity rather than complicated engines designed to keep European dealers in servicing fees. A single cam V8 weighs less than a DOHC V8 and a cam chain doesn't need expensive replacement.. Arguably the single cam and pushrods employed by GM are lighter still and avoid the weight and height of a cam carrier and higher CofG that necessarily brings.
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