GT86 Full Autocar Road Test

[SonicHedgeHog]

They might fine tune it, but I'm not expecting a turbo. It would need bigger brakes, wheels, tyres and uprated components and it would push the car into a price bracket with some serious competition. In fact, if you think about it, neither Toyota nor Subaru ever change the engine in their cars from the ones that are available from launch. Yes, there are special editions, but it's always basically the same car.

[otolith]

s m said:

I guess EVO have to speak as they find, plus ultimately it's just their opinion.

Sure - I just find their priorities perplexing. They are probably closer to those of the man on the street than one would expect, but still. Evo's view amounts to saying that none of the careful engineering of the Toyota/Subaru was worth bothering with. Driven wheels? Weight distribution? Centre of gravity? Who cares, mid range grunt is where the thrill of driving is.

I just can't imagine LJKS agreeing with them.

[s m]

otolith said:

s m said:

I guess EVO have to speak as they find, plus ultimately it's just their opinion.

Sure - I just find their priorities perplexing. They are probably closer to those of the man on the street than one would expect, but still. Evo's view amounts to saying that none of the careful engineering of the Toyota/Subaru was worth bothering with. Driven wheels? Weight distribution? Centre of gravity? Who cares, mid range grunt is where the thrill of driving is.

Did you read this month's test against the DC2, Clio Cup and M3? Writer praised the balance and adjustment - worth a read - none of the cars had much mid range grunt

[otolith]

Haven't got this month's yet, was going off their last kicking.

[s m]

otolith said:

Haven't got this month's yet, was going off their last kicking.

Doesn't really get a kicking in this one - as ever, it will depend a lot on the journo writing the article.

[heebeegeetee]

otolith said:

Sure - I just find their priorities perplexing. They are probably closer to those of the man on the street than one would expect, but still. Evo's view amounts to saying that none of the careful engineering of the Toyota/Subaru was worth bothering with. Driven wheels? Weight distribution? Centre of gravity? Who cares, mid range grunt is where the thrill of driving is.

I just can't imagine LJKS agreeing with them.

LJKS very much liked his Scirocco Storm though, which means he has low standards according to you.

[otolith]

You may also recall how important he considered the low centre of gravity of his Prelude, and how much he like Honda's high revving VTEC engines - and how he correctly identified flexibility as a function of a wide spread of torque rather than of a high peak at low revs.

[MC Bodge]

SonicHedgeHog said:

I think the perceived performance shortfall is due to the torquey turbo charged engines fitted to virtually every affordable, practical performance car. They make the performance so accessible. You have to work this engine to get the performance

I agree, up to a point. Throttle response can be better and keeping an engine in the power band requires good driving and can be rewarding.

But.... Narrow power bands are a result of the limitations of the physics of a naturally aspirated air engine and not a benefit.

At a time when a fairly small capacity turbo engine can give a smooth, stonking power delivery with little lag -at almost all rpm- (...and relatively low fuel consumption when not giving it the beans), is it not understandable that a lot of people, ie. car buyers, do like them and if swapping from a turbo to a GT86/BRZ would miss the 'urge' available, especially if the car is one that they use as a daily driver?

The alternative, torquey big cc n/a engines, are basically being taxed off the roads.

SonicHedgeHog said:

for me 200 NA horsepower beats 300 turbocharged horsepower every time

If the car was a true lightweight, possibly.

I'd like to try a GT86/BRZ.

Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 13th August 08:28

[checkmate91]

heebeegeetee said:

LJKS very much liked his Scirocco Storm though, which means he has low standards according to you.

Leonard also wrote an article on the Renault 16 (the one with the oddly aligned wheels) praising it as a vehicle about which handling transcended grip, a feature he greatly applauded. Most other folks at the time thought it was crap.

I also had a scirocco, a masterpiece of soft springing and brilliant damping! Which I suspect moves back in the direction of the USP of the GT86. I think Setright would have liked the GT86.

Edited by checkmate91 on Sunday 12th August 22:34

[s m]

MC Bodge said:

SonicHedgeHog said:

I think the perceived performance shortfall is due to the torquey turbo charged engines fitted to virtually every affordable, practical performance car. They make the performance so accessible. You have to work this engine to get the performance

I agree, up to a point. Throttle response can be better and keeping an engine in the power band requires good driving and can be rewarding.

But.... Narrow power bands are a result of the limitations of the physics of a naturally aspirated air engine and not a benefit.

At a time when a fairly small capacity turbo engine can give a smooth, stonking power delivery with little lag -at almost all rpm- (...and relatively low fuel consumption when not giving it the beans), is it not understandable that a lot of people, ie. car buyers, do like them and if swapping from a turbo to a GT86/BRZ would miss the 'urge' available, especially if the car is one that they use as a daily driver?

The alternative, torquey big cc n/a engines, are basically being taxed off the roads.

SonicHedgeHog said:

for me 200 NA horsepower beats 300 turbocharged horsepower every time

If the car was a true lightweight, possibly.

I'd like to try a GT86/BRZ.

Be interesting to see what difference the new Autocar project will make to weight....and in turn what difference it will make to the car. I'm waiting the next instalment

[the-photographer]

s m said:

Be interesting to see what difference the new Autocar project will make to weight....and in turn what difference it will make to the car. I'm waiting the next instalment

I read this section in the 8th Aug edition, but their projected price tag is £4000...

[s m]

the-photographer said:

s m said:

Be interesting to see what difference the new Autocar project will make to weight....and in turn what difference it will make to the car. I'm waiting the next instalment

I read this section in the 8th Aug edition, but their projected price tag is £4000...

I thought the battery was an expensive way to lose weight - nevertheless, they said they would pit it against a standard car. I quite liked the way they said they'd approach it......firstly, shed weight and hone the dynamics, wheels, tyres, geometry changes etc etc.... then, next year go for adding more power etc etc.
Both the "lightweight n/a camp" and the "more power camp" are being accommodated to see possible 'improvements'.

[the-photographer]

s m said:

I thought the battery was an expensive way to lose weight - nevertheless, they said they would pit it against a standard car. I quite liked the way they said they'd approach it......firstly, shed weight and hone the dynamics, wheels, tyres, geometry changes etc etc.... then, next year go for adding more power etc etc.
Both the "lightweight n/a camp" and the "more power camp" are being accommodated to see possible 'improvements'.

Its an interesting project, but I fear the price will be prohibitive. The battery is £420 and the wheels/tyres £1500.

Also, they claim the GT86 uses Prius tyres? What exactly are these? Michelin Energy Saver?

[MC Bodge]

Shedding weight can make a difference

[s m]

the-photographer said:

s m said:

I thought the battery was an expensive way to lose weight - nevertheless, they said they would pit it against a standard car. I quite liked the way they said they'd approach it......firstly, shed weight and hone the dynamics, wheels, tyres, geometry changes etc etc.... then, next year go for adding more power etc etc.
Both the "lightweight n/a camp" and the "more power camp" are being accommodated to see possible 'improvements'.

Its an interesting project, but I fear the price will be prohibitive. The battery is £420 and the wheels/tyres £1500.

Also, they claim the GT86 uses Prius tyres? What exactly are these? Michelin Energy Saver?

I think they might be 215/45 W17 Michelin Primacy HP

[wisbechlad]

6,000 have been sold in two months in USA (4,500 Toyota, 1,500 Subaru)

[Guvernator]

wisbechlad said:

6,000 have been sold in two months in USA (4,500 Toyota, 1,500 Subaru)

The GT86 will do very well in it's home Japanese market and the US, not because it's such a brilliant car out of the box but because people will mod the sh*t out of them in those markets

a) Because modding is a much bigger culture in both those countries

b) They don't get ripped off with prices and have easy access to performance parts.

How many people in the UK would buy a brand new GT86 and then take it straight to a tuning shop to have most of it's parts replaced? Not many I'd wager but This WILL happen in Japan and US and it's this potential which will ensure they sell loads rather than the good but not great standard car.

[coanda]

With modding being a major part of the underlying philosophy and ethos from the very beginning, that's no surprise.

This is not a car for lazy drivers who don't care about being a good driver, or enjoy the driving experience.

[Save Ferris]

s m said:

the-photographer said:

s m said:

I thought the battery was an expensive way to lose weight - nevertheless, they said they would pit it against a standard car. I quite liked the way they said they'd approach it......firstly, shed weight and hone the dynamics, wheels, tyres, geometry changes etc etc.... then, next year go for adding more power etc etc.
Both the "lightweight n/a camp" and the "more power camp" are being accommodated to see possible 'improvements'.

Its an interesting project, but I fear the price will be prohibitive. The battery is £420 and the wheels/tyres £1500.

Also, they claim the GT86 uses Prius tyres? What exactly are these? Michelin Energy Saver?

I think they might be 215/45 W17 Michelin Primacy HP

New Prius come with Toyo Proxes now! , but yes the GT comes with Michelin Primacy.

[MC Bodge]

MC Bodge said:

Gompo said:

MC Bodge said:

I thought I'd seen one approaching me the other day, but it turned out to be a Hyundai.

Really or are you trolling? From front on I think they're quite distinctive, in part due to their low bonnet line (for a new car), they also seem quite wide although that could be an optical illusion. Can't think of a Hyundai they look similar to from the front.

Genuinely. In the corner of my eye I saw a car approaching as I rode round a roundabout.

I've not seen one in the flesh and I thought it might have been a GT86. I'm interested in seeing one. When it got closer I realised my mistake.

I didn't have comparison photos with me, but they're hardly entirely different. The US market Genesis looks very similar..

Update: I saw an Orange GT86 this evening. It looks good in the metal and bigger than I expected. It really doesn't look that different a Hyundai Coupé, though!