RE: Chris Harris video: Camaro ZL1 vs Mustang GT500
Discussion
I test drove a standard V8 Mustang just a few weeks ago. It sounds beautiful. But even in base form it is too lacking in grip. I found it ridiculous tbh.
(I expected to have lots of fun, but I was disappointed. Small cars with big engines are much better fun.)
(I expected to have lots of fun, but I was disappointed. Small cars with big engines are much better fun.)
Edited by peterbredde on Thursday 5th July 20:53
Zad said:
You can Facepalm and accuse me of being a Clarkson sheep all you like girls, but average UK pump petrol still has a higher usable energy density than US stuff. Even better if you stir in a bit of ethanol.
Do you actually have anything to back this up? BTW in many parts of the US you can buy pump E85, you can't in the UK.Zad said:
Much though I love Ford stuff, the interior of that Mustang makes my 1991 Sierra look like a stylish modern cockpit.
Really? Sure you don't need an eye test 
peterbredde said:
I test drove a standard V8 Mustang just a few weeks ago. It sounds beautiful. But even in base form it is too lacking in grip. I found it ridiculous tbh.
(I expected to have lots of fun, but I was disappointed. Small cars with big engines are much better fun.)
The Pirelli P Neros they fit as standard are very poor. Americans value longevity rather than grip and like doing burnouts. I have 275/35s on mine and as you might imagine, have never had any slippage. (I expected to have lots of fun, but I was disappointed. Small cars with big engines are much better fun.)
Small cars with big engines are not so much more fun as vastly more exploitable to their limits. You do need some driving skill and RWD experience to get the best from a Mustang and a pair of big b*lls if you want to utilise the oversteer function.
Car and Driver, which has for the last 20 years IIRC, ranked the Mustang above the Camaro, gave the nod to the Camaro because the Mustang was too harsh!
Also, while the interior of the Camaro is certainly better than the 90s one, its nowhere near as 'nice' as the Mustang at least in standard form and I don't anticipate the souped up versions being any different.
I recently drove an Audi S5, and though a lot slower and nowhere near as fun to drive as the Americans, there were other aspects that I think would be more relevant to day to day driving. The interior is really really nice, and you just get a feeling of goodwill sitting inside it compared to the Mustang/Camaro which wouldn't be as fun if you were doing the daily commute stuck in traffic 50% of the time.
Of course, you're only young once and a 30 year old doesn't look that much of a prat (compared to a 50 yr old) in a loud Camstang so one of those is my next next car
Also, while the interior of the Camaro is certainly better than the 90s one, its nowhere near as 'nice' as the Mustang at least in standard form and I don't anticipate the souped up versions being any different.
I recently drove an Audi S5, and though a lot slower and nowhere near as fun to drive as the Americans, there were other aspects that I think would be more relevant to day to day driving. The interior is really really nice, and you just get a feeling of goodwill sitting inside it compared to the Mustang/Camaro which wouldn't be as fun if you were doing the daily commute stuck in traffic 50% of the time.
Of course, you're only young once and a 30 year old doesn't look that much of a prat (compared to a 50 yr old) in a loud Camstang so one of those is my next next car
Great cars. Always been a muscle car fan. Prefer the look of the Challenger over the Mustang and the Camaro. Looks more original 70's muscle. It is a shame they haven't joined the war. What happened to the proposed SRT10 project. Any of you guys have any real world experience of the Challenger. Is it any good ?
midtec said:
2. For $14k I can buy a supercharger kit for the M3 that will give me 620HP for use on the track. $40k (2yr old M3) and $14k (supercharger kit) + $2k fitting = $56k. Isn't a 620Hp M3 more desirable????
Yes, comparing a car with no warranty and heavy modification to a brand new stock car makes complete sense. 
PascalBuyens said:
1LE. ZL body, but stripped out and NA engine...
That's the badger. I'd still take the ZL1 but I like the idea of a charged v8. I've watched a few vids including Monkey's and the concencous is that the Camaro is the better car (especially concerning brakes) it just lacks silly power figure (in itself a crazy notion).
Tempted by a 2013 model with touchscreen and rear camera....
E38Ross said:
Matt UK said:
300bhp/ton said:
r1ch said:
Quite weighty though, what was it, 1800 kg for the one?
Yes, but not overly so compared to other modern cars:| 2010 BMW M3 Convertible auto | 1905kg |
|---|---|
| 2006 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano | 1753kg |
| 2012 Aston Martin Vanquish | 1739kg |
| 2011 Jaguar XKR-S Convertible | 1795kg |
E39 M5 1826 kg
E60 M5 1855 kg
F100 M5 1945 kg
Merc E63 1836 kg
Audi C5 V8 RS6 1840 kg
Audi C6 V10 RS6 2025 kg
Maserati GranTurismo 1880 kg
BMW 6 Series 650i Coupe 1734 kg
Even a 997 Porsche Turbo, specced as a PDK+Cab is a 1700 kg car
they aren't comparable to be honest, there is no getting away from >50% more power.
Who makes it, Massey Ferguson?
300bhp/ton said:
Zad said:
You can Facepalm and accuse me of being a Clarkson sheep all you like girls, but average UK pump petrol still has a higher usable energy density than US stuff. Even better if you stir in a bit of ethanol.
Do you actually have anything to back this up? BTW in many parts of the US you can buy pump E85, you can't in the UK.I don't care what you can buy, you can buy hypergolic hydrazine propellant if you want. It's what people do buy that matters.
Zad said:
Really? Sure you don't need an eye test
Well you tell me:Chris pictured earlier next to a 1973 Morris Marina door and a seat from my mum's Grattan catalogue of the same year.
And a 1982 Fidelity in-car entertainment system.
Or it may be one of Amstrad's designs, not sure:
I understand your allegiance to US cars, and muscle cars in general. These cars have many attractive qualities in terms of street presence and power (and plain old value for money at home in the US) but the cabin surfaces and materials aren't even in the same century as Ford Europe's designs, let alone the more expensive brands.
* None, some or all of this may actually not be true.
chilled901 said:
midtec said:
2. For $14k I can buy a supercharger kit for the M3 that will give me 620HP for use on the track. $40k (2yr old M3) and $14k (supercharger kit) + $2k fitting = $56k. Isn't a 620Hp M3 more desirable????
Yes, comparing a car with no warranty and heavy modification to a brand new stock car makes complete sense. Zad said:
Well you tell me:
Chris pictured earlier next to a 1973 Morris Marina door and a seat from my mum's Grattan catalogue of the same year.
And a 1982 Fidelity in-car entertainment system.
Or it may be one of Amstrad's designs, not sure:
I understand your allegiance to US cars, and muscle cars in general. These cars have many attractive qualities in terms of street presence and power (and plain old value for money at home in the US) but the cabin surfaces and materials aren't even in the same century as Ford Europe's designs, let alone the more expensive brands.
* None, some or all of this may actually not be true.
Hmmm.....something tells me "clueless knob".Chris pictured earlier next to a 1973 Morris Marina door and a seat from my mum's Grattan catalogue of the same year.
And a 1982 Fidelity in-car entertainment system.
Or it may be one of Amstrad's designs, not sure:
I understand your allegiance to US cars, and muscle cars in general. These cars have many attractive qualities in terms of street presence and power (and plain old value for money at home in the US) but the cabin surfaces and materials aren't even in the same century as Ford Europe's designs, let alone the more expensive brands.
* None, some or all of this may actually not be true.
dvs_dave said:
Zad said:
Well you tell me:
Chris pictured earlier next to a 1973 Morris Marina door and a seat from my mum's Grattan catalogue of the same year.
And a 1982 Fidelity in-car entertainment system.
Or it may be one of Amstrad's designs, not sure:
I understand your allegiance to US cars, and muscle cars in general. These cars have many attractive qualities in terms of street presence and power (and plain old value for money at home in the US) but the cabin surfaces and materials aren't even in the same century as Ford Europe's designs, let alone the more expensive brands.
* None, some or all of this may actually not be true.
Hmmm.....something tells me "clueless knob".Chris pictured earlier next to a 1973 Morris Marina door and a seat from my mum's Grattan catalogue of the same year.
And a 1982 Fidelity in-car entertainment system.
Or it may be one of Amstrad's designs, not sure:
I understand your allegiance to US cars, and muscle cars in general. These cars have many attractive qualities in terms of street presence and power (and plain old value for money at home in the US) but the cabin surfaces and materials aren't even in the same century as Ford Europe's designs, let alone the more expensive brands.
* None, some or all of this may actually not be true.
I'm over in Canada on holiday and there's loads of new muscle cars on the roads here. They all look awesome and sound amazing. The rumble from the exhausts of the V8 engines is pure music. There's a lot of the originals still around as well and they look every bit as stunning now as when they were new. I'd love to have one of each model from Ford, Dodge, Chevrolet , Pontiac and use them all. They are just stunning.
dvs_dave said:
Hmmm.....something tells me "clueless knob".
I'm not going to comment on his comparisons to old Fords and such as it seems a bit exaggerated to me, but his comment about European Fords v. American ones is spot on. And 300hp/ton, the new Mustang has the aluminium dash something I don't think the 05 had (I assume the one in your pic is just painted plastic).
That said, I'm not sure it matters. I used to be a stickler for interior quality and hated American cars for their absolutely shocking lack of detail in their interiors. Then I drove the 2003 Mustang GT (the first one with the 60s-looking rims) and I loved it so much that the horrible plastics and weird seating position didn't matter at all!
midtec said:
Since when have things had to make sense when you are talking about road cars with 600+Hp. You pays your money and you takes your chance, same as everything in life. If you can't afford to fix it then I guess I agree with you go with the safe option and the stock car with a warranty, but my experience has been if you do your homework and get the right mods from the right company it isn't a huge risk.
In that case I am going to skip some additional back and forth and bring up the fox body Mustang right now. Get one of those, throw in a twin turbo setup + race motor for $10k, some decent suspension setup and you have a car that will more than just keep up with your M3 for the price of your supercharger setup. I love the look of the Camaro, shot the V6 model a while ago:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Ridiculous amount of bang for buck in either model!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Ridiculous amount of bang for buck in either model!
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