RE: Chris Harris video: Camaro ZL1 vs Mustang GT500

[E38Ross]

To be honest, weight doesn't bother me too much. If it drives nicely I don't care. You won't get me saying the us US cars are heavy. 1800kgs is fine. It's not a track car and it doesn't try to be.

[willisit]

E38Ross said:

To be honest, weight doesn't bother me too much. If it drives nicely I don't care. You won't get me saying the us US cars are heavy. 1800kgs is fine. It's not a track car and it doesn't try to be.

I agree.. although Chevy (at least) are throwing the ZL1's track credentials about quite heavily.

I suspect though, that their upcoming "stripped-out" model will be the true track car... if such a thing is possible. I forget it's name at the moment...

[300bhp/ton]

willisit said:

I agree.. although Chevy (at least) are throwing the ZL1's track credentials about quite heavily.

I suspect though, that their upcoming "stripped-out" model will be the true track car... if such a thing is possible. I forget it's name at the moment...

I haven't seen (well ok I haven't looked either). But what sort of marketing are they doing? Also when they say track in America they sometimes mean drag strip, not circuit.

[willisit]

300bhp/ton said:

I haven't seen (well ok I haven't looked either). But what sort of marketing are they doing? Also when they say track in America they sometimes mean drag strip, not circuit.

I followed the development and they use forums such as camaro5.com quite a bit. With the original SS it was all about the design and the street - this time, the 'ring. All initial reviews and press use was track-only - I think mainly because of the suspension rather than trying to push it's drag strip times (it's a heavy car).

Marketing wise, in the US I saw very little - mainly the usual picture of it against a nondescript backdrop doing very little.

[Reardy Mister]

Matt UK said:

The M3 conversation interests me, because it just doesn't seem relevant - American muscle cars and German sports coupes are built in different ways, to meet different needs, for different people.

It seems like working out which training shoe is best for you, and then saying 'no, actually I'll buy some brogues'.

Think about this; in Europe we don't really have much heritage or knowledge American muscle cars, yet in America they do have heritage and knowledge of German sports coupes. I suspect that a customer of one, would be unlikely to have the other on their final shortlist. In fact, they may find it a bit odd that on a UK-based car forum people are discussing them in the same breath.

I don't know this for sure, so American PHers, what say you?

Correct. We're not comparing apples with apples. These cars are the every-man performance car in the US as the M3 is here. The benchmarks are different on either side of the Atlantic thanks to factors like cost, exclusivity, practicality, marketing and car culture. It makes no more sense telling Europeans that a live axle 670hp car is better than an M3, than it does telling a resident of North Carolina that his 'stang is a POS and this poncy german car with half the power but is great on a track, makes sense. The car culture that the two things are derived from and have their heritage in, are polar opposites.

Its a pointless argument.

[LuS1fer]

willisit said:

I agree.. although Chevy (at least) are throwing the ZL1's track credentials about quite heavily.

I suspect though, that their upcoming "stripped-out" model will be the true track car... if such a thing is possible. I forget it's name at the moment...

The Ford track car is the Boss Laguna Seca. Weren't Chevy wittering on about re-inventing the original Z28 tag in yet another confusing resurrection of the past?

[irocfan]

Reardy Mister said:

These cars are the every-man performance car in the US as the M3 is here.

M3 'everyman performance'???? Not a fking chance!! It's no-where near 'everyman' with a list of 54k + options. Add in bland styling and total ubiquity of the 'exclusive/prestige' 3 series - BM? No thanks

[Reardy Mister]

irocfan said:

Reardy Mister said:

These cars are the every-man performance car in the US as the M3 is here.

M3 'everyman performance'???? Not a fking chance!! It's no-where near 'everyman' with a list of 54k + options. Add in bland styling and total ubiquity of the 'exclusive/prestige' 3 series - BM? No thanks

Not brand new, no. But they are the sub-911 choice of the performance car enthusiast and they become fairly attainable, failry quickly. Already the E90 sahpe can be had for circa 22k.

So in that respect, they are the performance car for the typical petrolhead, I think.

[willisit]

LuS1fer said:

The Ford track car is the Boss Laguna Seca. Weren't Chevy wittering on about re-inventing the original Z28 tag in yet another confusing resurrection of the past?

Sort of, yes. This (the ZL1) was expected to be the Z28 - despite the Z28 not being what everyone thought. Then the stripped out one was expected to be such - but that's got a different badge as well. Long may it continue....

[Matt UK]

Reardy Mister said:

irocfan said:

Reardy Mister said:

These cars are the every-man performance car in the US as the M3 is here.

M3 'everyman performance'???? Not a fking chance!! It's no-where near 'everyman' with a list of 54k + options. Add in bland styling and total ubiquity of the 'exclusive/prestige' 3 series - BM? No thanks

Not brand new, no. But they are the sub-911 choice of the performance car enthusiast and they become fairly attainable, failry quickly. Already the E90 sahpe can be had for circa 22k.

So in that respect, they are the performance car for the typical petrolhead, I think.

Not sure I agree, you can't really compare new with used..

In my view the 'everyman' performance cars in the UK were the 'fast fords' before moving to the hot hatch.
The working man who wants his new car to have performance but still needs some practicality, buys a Golf GTI.

[PascalBuyens]

willisit said:

I agree.. although Chevy (at least) are throwing the ZL1's track credentials about quite heavily.

I suspect though, that their upcoming "stripped-out" model will be the true track car... if such a thing is possible. I forget it's name at the moment...

1LE. ZL body, but stripped out and NA engine...

[anonymous-user]

Always been more of a Ford fan than GM, but must admit, would happily take the Camaro given a choice between the two.

[Zad]

You can Facepalm and accuse me of being a Clarkson sheep all you like girls, but average UK pump petrol still has a higher usable energy density than US stuff. Even better if you stir in a bit of ethanol.

Much though I love Ford stuff, the interior of that Mustang makes my 1991 Sierra look like a stylish modern cockpit. 1970s retro is one thing (especially on a Mustang) but good grief. I will say one thing though, the official airbrushed / rendered Ford brochure photos make it look far sexier than reality. Which I suppose is their job.

Must... stop... playing... with.... configurator...... AAARGH.

http://bp3.ford.com/2013-Ford-Mustang?branding=1&a...

(I used 12345 as the ZIP code)

[GALLARDOGUY]

That camaro is one of the meanest looking cars ever made.

Interior much better than expected too.

I'm tempted.

[tommy vercetti]

IMO the Camaro looks better, mean front end, but that's not saying the Mustang doesn't look good, I think it looks brilliant. Power figures for both cars sound nuts.

[K2MDL]

The Camaro has it in looks no question

[HD Adam]

Zad said:

You can Facepalm and accuse me of being a Clarkson sheep all you like girls, but average UK pump petrol still has a higher usable energy density than US stuff. Even better if you stir in a bit of ethanol.

How do you work that out then?

BTW, if you add ethanol, even though the octane rating goes up, the BTU energy of alcohol is lower than petrol so it goes down.

[dinkel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskMEV0Z4Ys&fea...

Nice!

[midtec]

I am from the UK but live in the US and currently own an E92 M3, I was very interested to watch the Vid as I am going to look at the Shelby Mustang at the weekend with the thought of replacing the M3. However I keep coming back to a couple of things:

1. I can't even use the full performance of the M3 anywhere in Denver (except the local race track) without risking being thrown in the clink and a huge fine, let alone a 660+HP Mustang.
2. For $14k I can buy a supercharger kit for the M3 that will give me 620HP for use on the track. $40k (2yr old M3) and $14k (supercharger kit) + $2k fitting = $56k. Isn't a 620Hp M3 more desirable????

[LuS1fer]

Zad said:

makes my 1991 Sierra look like a stylish modern cockpit.

Not even a wheelie bin can do that.