RE: C63 Black Series: The perfect road car?

RE: C63 Black Series: The perfect road car?

Author
Discussion

E38Ross

34,948 posts

211 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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Foxy81 said:
Thats not really true either is it...

In your example it is your legs that generate the force, the bike wheel is geared which multiplies the force you are applying, so the wheel rpm is governed by the gear ratio. Put 500lbft of torque onto the pedals in one gear and the wheel will spin at a certain rpm, if its a different gear the wheel rpm will be different, even if the force applied is the same.

Power in this case is simply a mathmatical formula, torque x engine revolutions, so an engine with a large amount of torque will make its power at lower revolutions than an engine with lower torque.

An engine that doesn't rev very high will never make as much power as one that has the same torque but revs higher, hence why a lot of diesel engines, despite large torque figures don't make huge peak power figures as they do not rev as high as a petrol engine, but at 1500rpm they are making more power than the petrol at the same rpm, making them more driveable and giving often better in gear acceleration ( dependant on gear ratios)
The part about the diesels is true to a certain extent. Them being more driveable though I disagree with. If you're driving at 1500rpm in both petrol and diesel cars at a given speed you'd like be 1 or 2 gears further up the box in the petrol. If you stick to road speed and gearing then the torque and rpm is less important as higher revving but less torquey motors will be revving higher thus making similar or more power, assuming each gear makes out at the same sort of road speed.

Schnellmann

1,893 posts

203 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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kambites said:
This is available with four seats, isn't it?
I think it is an option.

I think it only makes sense with 4 seats. If just two seats then why would you have this as opposed to a "proper" 2 seater (meaning a car specifically designed to be a 2-seater), which should be smaller and lighter?

Foxy81

15 posts

209 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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E38Ross said:
The part about the diesels is true to a certain extent. Them being more driveable though I disagree with. If you're driving at 1500rpm in both petrol and diesel cars at a given speed you'd like be 1 or 2 gears further up the box in the petrol. If you stick to road speed and gearing then the torque and rpm is less important as higher revving but less torquey motors will be revving higher thus making similar or more power, assuming each gear makes out at the same sort of road speed.
That is why power and torque are not massively important in everyday driving situations, as engines are mated to gearboxes with ratios appropriate to their torque curves and power figures, giving, in reality 99% of the time a very similar driving experience regardless of power and torque, unless you are talking a tiny engine in a massively heavy car etc..

Uncle John

4,271 posts

190 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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OOooppps! I've just done a sex wee.

What a car, massive presence, massive performance.

Chapeau to MB for producing it.

E38Ross

34,948 posts

211 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
quotequote all
Foxy81 said:
E38Ross said:
The part about the diesels is true to a certain extent. Them being more driveable though I disagree with. If you're driving at 1500rpm in both petrol and diesel cars at a given speed you'd like be 1 or 2 gears further up the box in the petrol. If you stick to road speed and gearing then the torque and rpm is less important as higher revving but less torquey motors will be revving higher thus making similar or more power, assuming each gear makes out at the same sort of road speed.
That is why power and torque are not massively important in everyday driving situations, as engines are mated to gearboxes with ratios appropriate to their torque curves and power figures, giving, in reality 99% of the time a very similar driving experience regardless of power and torque, unless you are talking a tiny engine in a massively heavy car etc..
Thats what I don't get why all the fuss over talk without the mention of rpm etc. If 2 totally different engines reach the same max speed in any given gear if one engine revs to 6k the other to 8.5k and people say but the 6k engine makes more torque and is more useful at 1500rpm then they'd be at least 1 or 2 gears higher than in the other car, so not a useful comparison.... It should be from say 5th gear at 50mph in both or something to see what's more "usable" surely? Or am I missing something?

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

177 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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Want big time but could happily live without the rear spoiler.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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E38Ross said:
Foxy81 said:
E38Ross said:
The part about the diesels is true to a certain extent. Them being more driveable though I disagree with. If you're driving at 1500rpm in both petrol and diesel cars at a given speed you'd like be 1 or 2 gears further up the box in the petrol. If you stick to road speed and gearing then the torque and rpm is less important as higher revving but less torquey motors will be revving higher thus making similar or more power, assuming each gear makes out at the same sort of road speed.
That is why power and torque are not massively important in everyday driving situations, as engines are mated to gearboxes with ratios appropriate to their torque curves and power figures, giving, in reality 99% of the time a very similar driving experience regardless of power and torque, unless you are talking a tiny engine in a massively heavy car etc..
Thats what I don't get why all the fuss over talk without the mention of rpm etc. If 2 totally different engines reach the same max speed in any given gear if one engine revs to 6k the other to 8.5k and people say but the 6k engine makes more torque and is more useful at 1500rpm then they'd be at least 1 or 2 gears higher than in the other car, so not a useful comparison.... It should be from say 5th gear at 50mph in both or something to see what's more "usable" surely? Or am I missing something?
But not all cars are like this. A manual V8 Disco1 uses the same diff ratio and the same/almost the same gear ratios as the diesel does.

And even on cars where they are different, sometimes the difference isn't huge.

If gearing solved everything, then all cars would feel the same to drive, but they don't.

BBS-LM

3,972 posts

223 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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Is it me, or is this car almost chav territory with that body kit!

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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BBS-LM said:
Is it me, or is this car almost chav territory with that body kit!
yes

predding

455 posts

215 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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So waht was the average mpg on that trip...20?

E38Ross

34,948 posts

211 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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300bhp/ton said:
But not all cars are like this. A manual V8 Disco1 uses the same diff ratio and the same/almost the same gear ratios as the diesel does.

And even on cars where they are different, sometimes the difference isn't huge.

If gearing solved everything, then all cars would feel the same to drive, but they don't.
I'm largely talking about cars with similar power outputs but different torque figures.

mikEsprit

827 posts

185 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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philmots said:
Nice car.

Id want mine without the big rear spoiler and the little ones on the front bumper I think they spoil the looks.

Imagine the old CLK Black? Like that but this car. Looks so much nicer.
The one on the back is embarrassing.

splitpin

2,740 posts

197 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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tomellingham said:
Does it only come in matte black?
In other markets, other colours and less of what some have described as the Max Power bits were available apparently >



MBK

28 posts

216 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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predding said:
So waht was the average mpg on that trip...20?
Having driven the 'normal' C63 in a spirited way on these roads I'd bid a fair bit lower, low teens I reckon!

MB 1

523 posts

184 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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I've seen NVH and the GTR mentioned a few times now. Is it really that bad? I'm flogging my GT3 for making me deaf on motorways, but i'd assumed the GTR was fairly quiet inside!

splitpin

2,740 posts

197 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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MB 1 said:
I've seen NVH and the GTR mentioned a few times now. Is it really that bad? I'm flogging my GT3 for making me deaf on motorways, but i'd assumed the GTR was fairly quiet inside!
Pardon?

F1GTRUeno

6,335 posts

217 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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splitpin said:
In other markets, other colours and less of what some have described as the Max Power bits were available apparently >


That's just a regular C63 coupe isn't it?

In any case, it can't be the perfect road car when it's as ugly as it is.

People would also laugh at you if you drove around in one fully kitted up like the one in the article.

red uk

73 posts

239 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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Mine arrives end of September!! 66 RHD being made for the UK. Black (not matt) with the same wheels as Chris drove, but in silver. No 'aerodynamic pack', IE large rear wing and front bumper winglets, instead a small rear carbon fibre lip spoiler. The cars come standard with 4 seats, but as a NCO can be ordered with two racing seats. Mine is 4 seats... Have a C63 estate and it's a very different car, much like the SLS is a very different car to the standard C63. Hope it's not too wet in October...!!

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

177 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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red uk said:
Mine arrives end of September!!
Congrats, you lucky sod wink

splitpin

2,740 posts

197 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
quotequote all
F1GTRUeno said:
splitpin said:
In other markets, other colours and less of what some have described as the Max Power bits were available apparently >


That's just a regular C63 coupe isn't it?

In any case, it can't be the perfect road car when it's as ugly as it is.

People would also laugh at you if you drove around in one fully kitted up like the one in the article.
Not according to this > http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mercedes/2013-mercede...

Let 'em laugh, it'll give them something to do between watching episodes of HBGT.