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Frimley111R

4,211 posts

103 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
nsmith1180 said:
The problem here is that Lotus has lost the moral claim to being Britain's plucky little sporscar maker when it tried to sell out to the Audi/Lambo/Aston/Ferrari way of doing things under Bahar.

Even as an enthusiast, who loves Lotus and its products, (though I would prefer it if they made them sized better for those of us who carry our own success ballast) I would rather see Ginetta doing what it is doing and Lotus on the scrap heap of history than the other way around. Its about a British company bringing in the money for British workforce and British business, rather than a British company bringing it in for a british workforce and its Malaysian owners.

Ginetta is the new Lotus. It is bringing on the young racing drivers, it is producing a few good-enough road cars to fund it's racing and it is doing it well. Lotus need to find a new model, go for the big time or throw in the towel.
Small budget sports cars don't make money. If you want Ginetta to follow Lotus' old model then you are saying that you want them to go under. Lotus have to step up to the marketplace or step out almost completely. They choose to step up and, with the help of financiers, are doing it. it was never going to be an easy route but they're on their way.

Frimley111R

4,211 posts

103 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
900T-R said:
.. Nowadays I feel Lotus' problem is more pricing than anything else - what was the basic (& by the sounds of it, best) Boxster again, £37K?


Nearer £50k I think you'll find.

thewheelman

2,194 posts

42 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
kambites said:
I find it very hard to see Lotus Cars surviving.
I hope you're wrong, but fear you're right.

Andrew[MG]

2,392 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
Lotus and McLaren should just merge. They would then have top end supercars + light weight sports cars, a winning Formula 1 team and all the tech and engineering they would ever need. How could this not work? smile

900T-R

18,560 posts

126 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
Frimley111R said:
900T-R said:
.. Nowadays I feel Lotus' problem is more pricing than anything else - what was the basic (& by the sounds of it, best) Boxster again, £37K?


Nearer £50k I think you'll find.
Just found it - base price is £37,589.
Advertisement

SWoll

4,426 posts

127 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
Frimley111R said:
900T-R said:
.. Nowadays I feel Lotus' problem is more pricing than anything else - what was the basic (& by the sounds of it, best) Boxster again, £37K?


Nearer £50k I think you'll find.
Nope.

£38K for the standard model

£45k for the S.

Top Gear 2012 Boxster


98elise

3,167 posts

30 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
Much as i hate to say it, but lotus need to start building heavy powerfull bling supercars if they want to sell cars/make money.

The current line up has too many flaws. The elise is too hard to live with every day (hence we also have an MX5) and the evora is too ordinary looking (even a bit ugly).

They need to:

Make the cars look exciting
Make them feel expensive inside
Make the body from something more exotic than fiberglass
Power them with a bespoke engine (ideally cosworth)

They could then double/treble the prices.

They are a good brand with a fantasic engineering branch, and a sucessfull F1 history. All they have to add is something people want to buy!

Edited by 98elise on Friday 6th July 13:40

otolith

19,374 posts

73 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
900T-R said:
Just found it - base price is £37,589.
However, Sir, there are certain options we would strongly recommend that you invest in to help retain the value of your new car...


900T-R

18,560 posts

126 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
900T-R said:
Just found it - base price is £37,589.
However, Sir, there are certain options we would strongly recommend that you invest in to help retain the value of your new car...
I respectfully suggest you, Mr. Porsche salesman, do one. I have yet to meet the person who made money - or even got most of their money back - on so-called 'essential' optional extras come sale or trade in time.

Your counterargument will undoubtedly be 'A car with desirable options is an easier sell, Sir.' To which I will answer 'If I'm essentially giving stuff away, I expect people to bite my hand off.'

So please, provide me with an OTR qoute for a Boxster with no extras before I ponder what else I can get for £38K and change my mind...

wink

Mikeyboy

5,010 posts

104 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
SWoll said:
Frimley111R said:
900T-R said:
.. Nowadays I feel Lotus' problem is more pricing than anything else - what was the basic (& by the sounds of it, best) Boxster again, £37K?


Nearer £50k I think you'll find.
Nope.

£38K for the standard model

£45k for the S.

Top Gear 2012 Boxster
He did say basic, and if you add options to any car it bumps the price up extraordinarily And that includs the Exige/Elise and Evora.

As for why Lotus didn't sell many cars. They have an ancient and very niche entry level car and then a massive gap to two over priced and under quality products that appeal to driving purists but few others. Which puts them in the problem they are in now.
What Porsche nails and what so few people posting on the various forums about Lotus' woes is that their cars have a decent image, are practical, well built and also for those who want it which actually isn't many, drive well. And that the order of priorities that the average car buyer really cares about. Don't get that right and why would you sell any cars?

footsoldier

480 posts

61 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
I have a new Exige V6 due for delivery first week of September. It's not a Porsche. Good!

LuS1fer

28,521 posts

114 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
I recall when Lotus used to sell kit cars in the early 70s. It's an image I don't think they have ever really shaken off.

I think that to gain any credibility, they need to ditch the GRP and switch to aluminium and concentrate oon more Porsche/Audi attributes which translate into sales.

I would guess that there is now a huge stock of used Lotus cars to cater to the track types and I regret to say that scameras and modern traffic conditions have largely put paid to zestful enthusiasts.

Much though I like the Elise and even the Evora, I think cars like the Elan, Elan +2S/130 and Europa had more glamour and appeal. No wonder the MX5 ripped off the Elan.

otolith

19,374 posts

73 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
900T-R said:
otolith said:
900T-R said:
Just found it - base price is £37,589.
However, Sir, there are certain options we would strongly recommend that you invest in to help retain the value of your new car...
I respectfully suggest you, Mr. Porsche salesman, do one. I have yet to meet the person who made money - or even got most of their money back - on so-called 'essential' optional extras come sale or trade in time.

Your counterargument will undoubtedly be 'A car with desirable options is an easier sell, Sir.' To which I will answer 'If I'm essentially giving stuff away, I expect people to bite my hand off.'

So please, provide me with an OTR qoute for a Boxster with no extras before I ponder what else I can get for £38K and change my mind...

wink
You say that now - wait until they've drugged your (very nice) coffee. hehe

Mikeyboy

5,010 posts

104 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
footsoldier said:
I have a new Exige V6 due for delivery first week of September. It's not a Porsche. Good!
I take it you have another car as well?

Banjo47

175 posts

95 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
footsoldier said:
I have a new Exige V6 due for delivery first week of September. It's not a Porsche. Good!
Well done that man!smile

otolith

19,374 posts

73 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
LuS1fer said:
I would guess that there is now a huge stock of used Lotus cars to cater to the track types and I regret to say that scameras and modern traffic conditions have largely put paid to zestful enthusiasts.
I don't think that's true - if anything, a car which disguises speed better is harder to enjoy on our roads. There are loads of roads round here where you can enjoy driving a small, raw sportscar without worrying about scameras or traffic or having a 170+mph top speed.

mike111

34 posts

60 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
My two pennies worth - what appeals to me about the previous Lotus is that they all look "NAUGHTY"! That to me is the essence of the brand. It's built on passion by people who genuinely luv and thrive on this mix of cheekiness and cleverness. I can live with sub-BMW/Audi quality, switches falling off randomly, leaking roof, bone-breaking in and out of the car, and even a Toyota engine (which seriously doesn;t sound THAT good) after all if you want these you won't be looking at a Lotus anyway. But look at the Evora, dull dull dull (I don;t cae how it drives, it's just sooo me-too)! And the idea they were going to produce was it 6, or 7 models, ALL looking exactly the same.........

Fast Eddie

66 posts

114 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
When I was a lad there were precious few affordable, quick cars you could buy that were a little different from the mainstream. Some of them were the original Lotus 7, frog eye Sprite etc. The youngsters today want to drive Clios and Corsas or whatever.
It's the slightly older buyer who now has money for a "sports car" and the manufactureres know exactly how to pitch their wares and what to charge for extras. I speak as a past owner of a Caterham, Elise and then a couple of TVR's.
A previous comment was absolutely on the button when he said, these cars will be driven at 5/10ths. You can't drive on the road as fast as the car will go so why not have the ace interior, Carlos Fandango wheels etc?
I expect I could drive from A to B as fast as most people in apparently much faster cars in my company sponsored Passat diesel auto.
This is a kind of a track v road era at the moment imo and Lotus and others need to find their niche and quickly. Saab, Artega and dear old TVR. Smollensky was on the right track when he improved quality, warranty etc but the cost to do that in small quantities is not possible without a sales price to match.

danielhodgkiss

60 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
Can't have a 200 percent drop. Doing so would involve customers giving more cars back to Lotus than it sold. Sales are down 62% year on year.

DanDC5

6,926 posts

36 months

[news] 
Friday 6th July 2012 quote quote all
900T-R said:
nsmith1180 said:
Ginetta is the new Lotus. It is bringing on the young racing drivers, it is producing a few good-enough road cars to fund it's racing and it is doing it well.
But are they making any money?
Are they even selling any cars??
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