RE: No more cars from TVR, says Smolensky
Discussion
There are four levels
Standard high volume, EC WVTA. Then ECSSTA, up to 1,000 vehicles of each type produced annually to be sold across EU, then NSSTA, National Small Series Type Approval, between 75 and 500 produced for the UK market of each type annually, and finally, IVA - Individual Vehicle Approval.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail...
Standard high volume, EC WVTA. Then ECSSTA, up to 1,000 vehicles of each type produced annually to be sold across EU, then NSSTA, National Small Series Type Approval, between 75 and 500 produced for the UK market of each type annually, and finally, IVA - Individual Vehicle Approval.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail...
JonRB said:
Bob_Defly said:
is there a volume limit a new company can produce UNDER so that they don't have to smash up numerous cars to test for safety regs?
Yes, there is. That's why no TVR has ever been (intentionally) crash-tested. 
) - but that car was also crash tested for UK Type Approval, famously using the same car for the side impact test after it was driven away from the frontal impact test...Also the M-series and Wedges has been crash tested for UK Type Approval back in their day.
Is there a way of knowing what Mr Smolensky paid for TVR, and a ball park figure of the investment during his brief ownership?? Is this info in the public domain?
With all the enthusiasm and obvious experience from within the company,on this site, can anyone suggest a minimum figure, that would be required to breathe life back into TVR, or to get production started, albeit a much smaller (200 cars pa as suggested elsewhere) with a similar design of car?
With all the enthusiasm and obvious experience from within the company,on this site, can anyone suggest a minimum figure, that would be required to breathe life back into TVR, or to get production started, albeit a much smaller (200 cars pa as suggested elsewhere) with a similar design of car?
900T-R said:
In fairness, Griffith/Chimaera did have full European Type Approval from the start of LHD production and were crash tested as part of the type approval procedure, also when they finally started producing LHDuscans they went part way through the procedure but never quite made it (hence factory new Tuscans arriving here with UK plates in the boot ) - but that car was also crash tested for UK Type Approval, famously using the same car for the side impact test after it was driven away from the frontal impact test...
Also the M-series and Wedges has been crash tested for UK Type Approval back in their day.
Hmmm, every day is a school day. I did not know that! ) - but that car was also crash tested for UK Type Approval, famously using the same car for the side impact test after it was driven away from the frontal impact test...Also the M-series and Wedges has been crash tested for UK Type Approval back in their day.
julianc said:
DonkeyApple said:
JonRB said:
Pun intentional? 
Haha. No. But maybe I've stumbled on the solution? Jon, you can have all the future profits that I will earn from using the word 'wedge' on the internet. It seems only fair.
S2Mike said:
Is there a way of knowing what Mr Smolensky paid for TVR, and a ball park figure of the investment during his brief ownership?? Is this info in the public domain?
With all the enthusiasm and obvious experience from within the company,on this site, can anyone suggest a minimum figure, that would be required to breathe life back into TVR, or to get production started, albeit a much smaller (200 cars pa as suggested elsewhere) with a similar design of car?
Total investment is rumoured to be in the region of £40 miliion, including the £15 million he paid to Peter Wheeler.With all the enthusiasm and obvious experience from within the company,on this site, can anyone suggest a minimum figure, that would be required to breathe life back into TVR, or to get production started, albeit a much smaller (200 cars pa as suggested elsewhere) with a similar design of car?
Investment would depend on what you had to pay to buy the marque and the development costs of a new car initially and the required ROI over what time period.
V8 GRF said:
Total investment is rumoured to be in the region of £40 miliion, including the £15 million he paid to Peter Wheeler.
Investment would depend on what you had to pay to buy the marque and the development costs of a new car initially and the required ROI over what time period.
So, at the suggested 200 cars a year, if you hoped to see some returns on your investment after ten years, you'd have to add £20,000 to the price of each and every car you sell - over and above the cost of actually making them.Investment would depend on what you had to pay to buy the marque and the development costs of a new car initially and the required ROI over what time period.
This is why TVR is dead. All the fantasy car company plans being put forward on this thread miss the basic fact that being a car company is more about finance and the sheer scale of the undertaking than it is about having a cool product. That's why Gordon Murray wants to license his new car and factory system, rather than make it himself.
V8 GRF said:
Total investment is rumoured to be in the region of £40 miliion, including the £15 million he paid to Peter Wheeler.
That's interesting. What did he spend the additional £25m on, other than presumably paying the unpaid bills from the suppliers? I never spotted any significant capital investment during factory tours (but of course, that doesn't mean there wasn't any).
Ok so I was saying how good it would be to keep TVR going but with the figures V8GRF mentions its gonna take loads of Wonga .......
Maybe all is lost for TVR,
Could these be the guys to carry on the British Car Building tradition?? Zolfe, based in Redditch.
If they can put this together and are already into Track Cars and export, engines are Duratec 2.3litre and not to far from the TVR S Series styles!
Lookin at a Roadster in the not too distant future.
Yes I know a V8 would be preferable for some TVR fans, but they may be persuaded to add that as an option??
900T-R said:
JonRB said:
Bob_Defly said:
is there a volume limit a new company can produce UNDER so that they don't have to smash up numerous cars to test for safety regs?
Yes, there is. That's why no TVR has ever been (intentionally) crash-tested. ) - but that car was also crash tested for UK Type Approval, famously using the same car for the side impact test after it was driven away from the frontal impact test...Also the M-series and Wedges has been crash tested for UK Type Approval back in their day.
S2Mike said:
Ok so I was saying how good it would be to keep TVR going but with the figures V8GRF mentions its gonna take loads of Wonga .......
Maybe all is lost for TVR,
Could these be the guys to carry on the British Car Building tradition?? Zolfe, based in Redditch.
If they can put this together and are already into Track Cars and export, engines are Duratec 2.3litre and not to far from the TVR S Series styles!
Lookin at a Roadster in the not too distant future.
Yes I know a V8 would be preferable for some TVR fans, but they may be persuaded to add that as an option??
Twincam16 said:
They're practically proving my point. I bet you could stick a TVR badge on that and it'd sell better than it does already.
Thats what I thought, don't know how they have been missed by me before now, starting up with smaller attainable plans and getting the reputation!julianc said:
V8 GRF said:
Total investment is rumoured to be in the region of £40 miliion, including the £15 million he paid to Peter Wheeler.
That's interesting. What did he spend the additional £25m on, other than presumably paying the unpaid bills from the suppliers? I never spotted any significant capital investment during factory tours (but of course, that doesn't mean there wasn't any).And revenue from sales of cars was already in terminal decline and alledgedly with close to a loss per unit at the time NS took over.
Rent to PW's pension was a shocking number as well and I assume they invested a reasonable sum in development and then there was the cost of all the rebuilds.
Did he not also pretty much halt production while they tried to fix some quality control issues?
It's a terrifying number but I guess it's quite feasible for it all to add up over a couple of years to that point?
Has Jon paid you your cut yet?
S2Mike said:
Thats what I thought, don't know how they have been missed by me before now, starting up with smaller attainable plans and getting the reputation!
Problem is they have been trying to start up for a hell of a long time now, I remember seeing the Zolfe at the NEC a good many years ago now. It was a lovely thing though, hope they are still a viable proposition.DonkeyApple said:
julianc said:
V8 GRF said:
Total investment is rumoured to be in the region of £40 miliion, including the £15 million he paid to Peter Wheeler.
That's interesting. What did he spend the additional £25m on, other than presumably paying the unpaid bills from the suppliers? I never spotted any significant capital investment during factory tours (but of course, that doesn't mean there wasn't any).And revenue from sales of cars was already in terminal decline and alledgedly with close to a loss per unit at the time NS took over.
Rent to PW's pension was a shocking number as well and I assume they invested a reasonable sum in development and then there was the cost of all the rebuilds.
Did he not also pretty much halt production while they tried to fix some quality control issues?
It's a terrifying number but I guess it's quite feasible for it all to add up over a couple of years to that point?
Has Jon paid you your cut yet?
And yes, Jon and I have signed a MoU to cover short term profit sharing.....
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