New car failure..

Author
Discussion

KB_S1

5,967 posts

228 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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n_const said:
Yep i agree , if they repair the problem and the car is fine whats the issue ? Surely thats the whole point of a warranty.
The question is though, has that fault then possibly caused more significant damage down the line?
Will that be inspected?

n_const

1,707 posts

200 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
Which later on down the line will still be covered by warranty ?

AndyBrew

Original Poster:

2,774 posts

218 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
I will be asking for a written report on the cause and remedy and then we'll see how it goes.

BMW authorised an Enterprise rent-a-car of unknown type, so the dealer has sorted me out a 640i convertible rather than risk me getting a lesser car, they couldn't have handled things any better in my opinion which is nice.

I should have my car back on Monday.

mph999

2,714 posts

219 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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paulrussell said:
I don't think you've got any grounds to reject the car. The dealer is sorting the problem, if the car has problems afterwards then you can reject the car.
You have every right to reject the car.

SOGA states that goods must be free defects, and fit for purpose. This fails.

I've rejected two cars - on 'similar grounds'.

SOGA states...

Customers are entitled to reject goods if they are faulty (do not match the description , are not of satisfactory quality , or are not fit for purpose ) and receive a full refund if they have not yet accepted the goods.

Before a customer is believed to have accepted the goods they have purchased, the law allows customers a reasonable opportunity to inspect or examine the goods and this should take place within a reasonable time .

For items sold in a shop, it is important for retailers to know that inspecting them in a shop is often not considered a reasonable opportunity. This is due to the restrictions of packaging and in-store display in allowing a customer to identify a problem or a fault.

For items being delivered, it is important for retailers to know that signing a delivery note is not acceptance as it does not allow the customer a reasonable opportunity to inspect the goods and identify any problems or faults.

The law does not give a time limit for acceptance. When trying to decide if a customer has had a reasonable opportunity to inspect their goods, consider what an impartial person in a court would think reasonable for that product in the circumstances.

Faulty goods, no acceptance
If the item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) for any of the reasons mentioned previously, and the customer has not accepted the goods, the law says the customer is entitled to
reject the goods and claim a full refund, or
request a repair or replacement if that is the customer's preferred option.
As the retailer, you can offer a repair, a replacement or a credit note, but you cannot insist on any one of these. It is the customer's right to receive a full refund in these circumstances.

I think generally goods are deemed as accepted after 30 days.

There is no diffeerence between a faulty TV and a faulty car. Simply that the car is expensive the dealers give all sorts of reasons why you can't reject it.

Martin

Edited by mph999 on Wednesday 11th July 16:14

confused_buyer

6,606 posts

180 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
I'm not sure why oil starvation would bring on an EML. There will have been codes stored, both generic OBD2 and BMW specific probably.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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McHaggis said:
I'd reject in writing, today.
Gotta love Pistonheads. This is the default answer now on these threads. I wonder how many of these posters would actually try to reject the car in real life though scratchchin

McHaggis

50,192 posts

154 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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St John Smythe said:
Gotta love Pistonheads. This is the default answer now on these threads. I wonder how many of these posters would actually try to reject the car in real life though scratchchin
Well, I'm quite happy to... my PH view of the world is similar to my real life view. Probably makes me a pain of a customer.

TinySpock

149 posts

142 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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I would take the attitude that seeing as they are fixing it AND anything major (In terms of anything else as a knock on effect) would reveal themselves within the 3 year standard warranty, then that's fine.

WheresMyCar

49 posts

143 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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TinySpock said:
I would take the attitude that seeing as they are fixing it AND anything major (In terms of anything else as a knock on effect) would reveal themselves within the 3 year standard warranty, then that's fine.
This...I had a problem with an Audi I bought new some years ago that took the garage 3 attempts to fix and in the end needed a new cylinder. Soured the experience of buying my first new car, but once they had fixed it the engine was good for the remaining 6 or so years I owned it (unlike the dash pod, diverter value and fuel tank sensor....)

AndyBrew

Original Poster:

2,774 posts

218 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
confused_buyer said:
I'm not sure why oil starvation would bring on an EML. There will have been codes stored, both generic OBD2 and BMW specific probably.
Yes the error codes logged were identical to a previous m3 that they spent 2 weeks diagnosing turned out to be this washer problem hence they are assuming it's the same issue.

morgrp

4,128 posts

197 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
doogz said:
As said, will they bother actually inspecting it? Or will someone with half a clue say "Oil starvation? Just put a new engine in it. Probably cheaper and easier in the long run"

Actually, no, they won't. BMW rebuilt our MINI engine 3 times.
3 times?
They must have done an awesome job...

AJB

856 posts

214 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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Captain Muppet said:
Given the lack of data my assumption was cautious. All we "know" is a washer somewhere around the camshaft has failed causing oil starvation to unspecified engine parts. If those parts include any bearings (like the camshaft bearings) then I wouldn't want to keep them if I had any kind of choice in the matter.

By all means be optimistic based on the colour of a warning lamp.
Well yes, if major engine bearings (like camshaft) are knackered, then that's major work, and I might consider trying to reject if I was planning to keep the car for years and years (ie a lot longer than the warranty).

My point was that the whole thread up to my post seemed to have been people saying engine lost oil pressure, therefore engine dead, therefore reject. I was pointing out that an amber check engine light, isn't what happens if the engine loses all oil pressure. Sure it could be a camshaft bearing problem, but it could just as easily be variable valve timing not advancing due to insufficient pressure reaching the actuator to move it.

By all means be pessimistic based on the words "oil starvation", but I wouldn't expect any dealer or manufacturer to accept a rejection if, although the customer has no idea what's wrong and whether anything major needs to be replaced or not, they're rejecting because an amber light has come on and the cause has something to do with oil starvation somewhere near the camshaft...

With more info then there might be a cause to reject, but I don't see how anyone could successfully reject (or would even want to) without more info.

mattnunn

14,041 posts

160 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
BMW shipped a brand new M3 with an engine that was obviously not quality controlled, without inspecting the engine and testing it?

30p engine part on a M3? I doubt you could purchase a tyre valve dust cap for an M3 for 30p

Really?

Sounds like the dealer said the first thing that came into his head or he made something little up to cover something big.

Reject it.

podwin

652 posts

201 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
I can't believe there are so many "reject it!" shouts.

Problems can happen in anything, the cost of the product is irrelevant.

Let the dealer sort it, I think they have a right to a chance to put things right.

Fittster

20,120 posts

212 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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I'd be interest if someone shouting REJECT results in the dealer happily supplying a new car.

Deerfoot

4,889 posts

183 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
St John Smythe said:
McHaggis said:
I'd reject in writing, today.
Gotta love Pistonheads. This is the default answer now on these threads. I wonder how many of these posters would actually try to reject the car in real life though scratchchin
It's almost the default PH answer.......he forgot to mention compensation!

Condi

17,016 posts

170 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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angusfaldo said:
McHaggis said:
No... Formally reject it. Accepting any form of repair or warranty weakens your position.
Reject it because it has a fault that the garage will fix? Surely the garage has a right to try to remedy the situation first?
I dont think you are allowed to reject it for such a trivial item, if taken to court/pushed on the issue.

Its fairly common for tractors/plant not to work straight away and to have 'niggles' but that is exactly what the warranty is for. The dealer is legally entitled time to put right any issues before you can turn round and reject it. Especially if it is something which can be fixed in half an hour or whatever, no court is going to find the car 'unfit for purpose' which is what it HAS to be before you can get a refund.



aw51 121565

4,771 posts

232 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
AndyBrew said:
confused_buyer said:
I'm not sure why oil starvation would bring on an EML. There will have been codes stored, both generic OBD2 and BMW specific probably.
Yes the error codes logged were identical to a previous m3 that they spent 2 weeks diagnosing turned out to be this washer problem hence they are assuming it's the same issue.
Assuming... that doesn't inspire confidence frown . Diplomatic answer would be to reassure the punter and keep schtumm until the problem is verified, I would think; I mean, it's put the wind up you, hasn't it?

At least they are looking after you with the 640i, and here's hoping they determine the problem and stop making assumptions so you get your new car back ASAP smile .

AndyBrew

Original Poster:

2,774 posts

218 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
I won't be rejecting the car, the dealer in question has been exemplary so far so I have no reason to doubt they will resolve the issue, there's an outside chance I'll get the car back for the weekend, I hope so I bloody hate this 640 it's like driving a settee!

Thanks for the input though guys much appreciated smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
quotequote all
podwin said:
I can't believe there are so many "reject it!" shouts.

Problems can happen in anything, the cost of the product is irrelevant.

Let the dealer sort it, I think they have a right to a chance to put things right.
This is Pistonheads. 95% of posters are keyboard warriors smile