New car failure..

Author
Discussion

BliarOut

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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AndyBrew said:
I won't be rejecting the car, the dealer in question has been exemplary so far so I have no reason to doubt they will resolve the issue, there's an outside chance I'll get the car back for the weekend, I hope so I bloody hate this 640 it's like driving a settee!

Thanks for the input though guys much appreciated smile
One point to consider, if it's a new engine the V5 will need amending. Will this show up and potentially reduce the value of the car?

It's just a question, I don't know the answer smile

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

169 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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I wouldnt worry about it.

The car wont be on the drive long enough (according to various threads).

AJB

856 posts

214 months

Wednesday 11th July 2012
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BliarOut said:
One point to consider, if it's a new engine the V5 will need amending. Will this show up and potentially reduce the value of the car?

It's just a question, I don't know the answer smile
I don't think so. I think the V5 just shows the engine number, and not how many engine numbers it's had (it's not like number of previous keepers). So yes it'd need amending, and no, nobody would know afterwards.

But hopefully this will just be something relatively minor and not a new engine job.

Steve H

5,218 posts

194 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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An oil feed problem causing a management light on is likely to be a variable cam timing issue and pretty unlikely to be anything that would cause damage to the engine. If it was something that caused ongoing problems it would be very likely to be within the remaining two years and 50 weeks of the warranty.

Talk of new engines and rejecting a car at this stage as if that was something that the supplying dealer has no say in is just daft and unrealistic.

Luckily the OP looks like one of the few posters on this thread not prone to overreaction rolleyes

LuS1fer

41,069 posts

244 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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y2blade said:
Reject it.

btw Brand new cars suck!!! You will enjoy about six months of silly little issues.
Really?
All my new cars have been relatively flawless.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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I think that I may be the first lawyer to post on this thread. My opinion based on real life legal experience is that the OP could not have rejected the car even if he had wished to do so. The defect identified was small, and is probably remediable. Small niggles are not out of the ordinary with any new and complex piece if machinery. It is unlikely that the engine has suffered major harm. The dealer and the OP are both doing the right thing. If on inspection the problem looks more serious, then the OP's options may change.

By the way, the alleged quotation from the Sale of Goods Act on a previous page is not a quotation from the Act. It appears to be a cut and paste from some website summarising Sale of Goods law. The Act is available on the UK legislation site.

Leptons

5,108 posts

175 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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Sounds like the VANOS (if it's still called that) has lost oil presseure. That in itself would probably cause no damage whatsoever but if the dealer cannot describe to you what has happened properly I wouldn't trust them to fix it.

If they can hook you up with another one soon ish I would be tempted to reject it.

Krikkit

26,494 posts

180 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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Leptons said:
Sounds like the VANOS (if it's still called that) has lost oil presseure. That in itself would probably cause no damage whatsoever but if the dealer cannot describe to you what has happened properly I wouldn't trust them to fix it.

If they can hook you up with another one soon ish I would be tempted to reject it.
Just because they can't describe it casually over the phone doesn't mean they don't know exactly what's wrong. I can fix things which I can't adequately describe to someone in 10 seconds, do you have some special psychic ability?

marcus85

152 posts

148 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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BliarOut said:
One point to consider, if it's a new engine the V5 will need amending. Will this show up and potentially reduce the value of the car?

It's just a question, I don't know the answer smile
At Audi replacement engines had no number on them and the original engine number was stamped on the new one .

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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Breadvan72 said:
I think that I may be the first lawyer to post on this thread. My opinion based on real life legal experience is that the OP could not have rejected the car even if he had wished to do so. The defect identified was small, and is probably remediable. Small niggles are not out of the ordinary with any new and complex piece if machinery. It is unlikely that the engine has suffered major harm. The dealer and the OP are both doing the right thing. If on inspection the problem looks more serious, then the OP's options may change.

By the way, the alleged quotation from the Sale of Goods Act on a previous page is not a quotation from the Act. It appears to be a cut and paste from some website summarising Sale of Goods law. The Act is available on the UK legislation site.
Finally someone speaks some sense smile I hope all the 'reject it' posters read and take note!

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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I reiterate that rejection is probably not an available option at this point. If the dealer disputed the rejection, the OP would be likely to lose the argument in court, based on what we know at present. If the facts change, the outcome may change, but, at present, rejection (which the OP does not wish to elect for in any event) is not a realistic prospect, unless the dealer happens to have another customer eager to take the car. People who glibly say "reject the car" are not showing any understanding of how the law on sale of goods actually works.

AJB

856 posts

214 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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St John Smythe said:
Finally someone speaks some sense smile
I like to think that I spoke some sense too!!!

Leptons

5,108 posts

175 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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Krikkit said:
Just because they can't describe it casually over the phone doesn't mean they don't know exactly what's wrong. I can fix things which I can't adequately describe to someone in 10 seconds, do you have some special psychic ability?
If I was trusting someone with fixing a brand new £45k+ car I'd want a better explanation than that. One that gives me confidence that they know what they are doing and my new car buying experience isn't going to turn into months of grief.

AJB

856 posts

214 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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Leptons said:
If I was trusting someone with fixing a brand new £45k+ car I'd want a better explanation than that. One that gives me confidence that they know what they are doing and my new car buying experience isn't going to turn into months of grief.
Yes, so would I, and I expect I'd get one. However OP said:
AndyBrew said:
I have been informed that the fault is related to a 30p washer somewhere around the camshaft causing oil starvation (forgive me I have no idea about mechanical things)
If the dealer had given OP a detailed explanation of exactly how the variable valve timing works, that low oil pressure meant the pulley wasn't rotating as far as it should on the camshaft, and that the ECU had detected that because the difference in timing between the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor wasn't as expected, then I expect they would have achieved nothing other than wasting 5 mins of the OP's and their time.

Dealers have a difficult job in working out what level to pitch info at for each customer. Some want to know everything in technical detail. Others want to know nothing more than "it's fixed".

Having said that, I'm the first person to check up on whatever the dealers have done, and I normally find something wrong, so I'm not saying for a second that they're perfect. But I don't think it's fair to fault them for not explaining technical detail so someone who "has no idea about mechanical things".

Leptons

5,108 posts

175 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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So instead of sitting on the fence, what would you advise the OP to do?

ALawson

7,814 posts

250 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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Alucidnation said:
I wouldnt worry about it.

The car wont be on the drive long enough (according to various threads).
rofl

Contigo

3,113 posts

208 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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According to the other thread it could be fuel related. A bad batch of V-power maybe?

AJB

856 posts

214 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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Leptons said:
So instead of sitting on the fence, what would you advise the OP to do?
I would advise wait until he's found out what's been done. He's already said he'll be asking for that information, and I'd already said he can't do anything else without more information, and he's already said he's not planning to do anything else without more information.

IF it turns out that they've had to replace the camshafts, head, or entire engine, and IF OP is planning to keep the car significantly beyond warranty period, then I'd consider investigating the possibilty of rejecting the car.

However, I think that's pretty unlikely given the only symptom was an amber check engine light, and given that it took 2 weeks to diagnose a similar problem on another car. I think it's far more likely they'll have changed some part or parts (probably to do with variable valve timing), and OP will get car back hopefully fixed, and hopefully no further problems.

OP can't reject without more info, and has said he doesn't want to reject based on current info. It's only PH saying reject instantly, with the justification for rejection being that the dealer hasn't explained (or been asked to explain) the technical details of the work they're doing, and so we can't be certain that it's not major work. I can't see how even the wonders of the internet could expect that to stand up in court. "I haven't asked what's wrong, and therefore I don't know what's wrong, and therefore I can't be sure it's not major, and therefore I want a replacement car"...

On a previous thread where someone had to have a new engine, I argued for investigating rejection if they were planning to keep the car, so I'm aware of the fact that the car might well not be as good as new after major work.

McHaggis

50,193 posts

154 months

Thursday 12th July 2012
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St John Smythe said:
Finally someone speaks some sense smile I hope all the 'reject it' posters read and take note!
Indeed. Whilst a number of posters did say "reject", including myself, I now withdraw the comment and recognise that it was probably poor advice.

I'm not a keyboard warrior; it was a gut instinct on such a high priced vehicle and I shall endeavor to learn from the other postings from those better informed than me.

That said, I would still consider (once the vehicle is returned) a polite letter to the dealership principle outlining the fault, the time to fix and thank them for the courtesy car. Should there be further faults then you at least have a correspondence trail recognising the timings and dates.