RE: PH Carpool: Hawk Stratos

RE: PH Carpool: Hawk Stratos

Author
Discussion

interloper

2,747 posts

254 months

Sunday 22nd July 2012
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ADM06 said:
So a v6 is better when designed to be one in the first place? Aren't most just v8's with two cylinders lopped off?
Nobody will argue over which they'd prefer, if just for the sound alone.
A few answers, V6 aren't inherently well balanced unless a lot of thought goes into the angles, so its perfectly possible to build a pup, were as a straight six or V12 is inherently smooth and requires less design input. Most V6s are 60 degree (with a few exceptions) were as most V8s have a 90 degree V.I dont know of any V6s which started life as V8s apart from the temporary engine shoved in the back of the prototype metro 6R4.

You can get good power out of a Naturally aspirated V6. The original Ferrari Dino V6 could be would up to produce 300bhp with just 2.5ltrs and 12 valves. The TWR designed V6 in the back of the production Metro 6R4s churned out 410bhp from 3ltrs in full rally tune and Auto delta breathed on/bored out Alfa V6s can churn out over the 300bhp mark.

Have you heard a 6R4 or real Stratos at full chat? Both make a very proper noise.

V8s are great but a good V6 definitely has its place.

masermartin

1,629 posts

176 months

Monday 23rd July 2012
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ADM06 said:
All of the above examples ate boosted. That hardly counts now does it?
Some of them are boosted examples, competing against boosted examples of other engine formats. Others are not boosted.

ADM06 said:
Are there many high revving NA v6 engines about? I can only think of the old NSX but that's it, and it's still behind what BMW have achieved with straight sixes.
Now we're adding "high revving" to the wish list? wink

Justayellowbadge

37,057 posts

241 months

Monday 23rd July 2012
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Please stop talking about breaking 8.32s to make kitcars.

However nice they are.

masermartin

1,629 posts

176 months

Monday 23rd July 2012
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Justayellowbadge said:
Please stop talking about breaking 8.32s to make kitcars.

However nice they are.
This.

ChrisJ.

563 posts

239 months

Tuesday 24th July 2012
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Here's another Hawk Stratos for sale. This time with a Honda V6 on carbs:
http://lanciastratos.wix.com/replica

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Friday 3rd August 2012
quotequote all
ADM06 said:
So a v6 is better when designed to be one in the first place? Aren't most just v8's with two cylinders lopped off?
Nobody will argue over which they'd prefer, if just for the sound alone.
Yep v6 all the way smile


ADM06

1,077 posts

171 months

Friday 3rd August 2012
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masermartin said:
Now we're adding "high revving" to the wish list? wink
Well, if it's NA how else will it make good power?
I love the stratos. They're a car I'd love to own, but if I were to build one it'd have a v8. You can get a v6 in a golf or some naff Peugeot, kinda ruins it for me.

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Friday 3rd August 2012
quotequote all
ADM06 said:
Well, if it's NA how else will it make good power?
I love the stratos. They're a car I'd love to own, but if I were to build one it'd have a v8. You can get a v6 in a golf or some naff Peugeot, kinda ruins it for me.
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).

hehe

ADM06

1,077 posts

171 months

Saturday 4th August 2012
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Blib said:
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).

hehe
So what you're saying is that oodles of effortless low down grunt in a lightweight car doesn't appeal to you?

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Saturday 4th August 2012
quotequote all
ADM06 said:
Blib said:
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).

hehe
So what you're saying is that oodles of effortless low down grunt in a lightweight car doesn't appeal to you?
Nope. What I'm saying is laguid, waves of power is not as fun as the urgent, screaming punch in the back provided by a V6. I'm also saying build one as you wish with any engine that you desire. BUT BUILD ONE.

hehe

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Saturday 4th August 2012
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It would have to be tje alfa v6 for me, just because ita nearer to the original and it is a replica after all.

If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.


. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do smile


Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Saturday 4th August 2012
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Gary C said:
It would have to be tje alfa v6 for me, just because ita nearer to the original and it is a replica after all.

If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.


. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do smile
Sorry about that. I was only talking about an actual Alfa 3.0 V6 in an actual Hawk that I own and drive. Silly me.

wink

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Sunday 5th August 2012
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Blib said:
Gary C said:
It would have to be tje alfa v6 for me, just because ita nearer to the original and it is a replica after all.

If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.


. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do smile
Sorry about that. I was only talking about an actual Alfa 3.0 V6 in an actual Hawk that I own and drive. Silly me.

wink
confused I was agreeing with you ? and pointing out to adm06 that engines can have different characteristics dependent on the designers brief.

A Hawk is on the list of the cars I want to build on retiring, and I would have an alfa V6 in it, maybe with some high overlap cams, carbs and lots of banging and popping smile

Edited by Gary C on Sunday 5th August 10:33

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Sunday 5th August 2012
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Apologies. You can rely on me to grab the wrong end of any stick with gusto.

hehe

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Sunday 5th August 2012
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No problem smile

The hawk looks like the sort of car I want to build, maybe start with a caterham first but the Stratos has been one of my all time favorites so a fairly accurate replica ticks the right boxes.


ChrisJ.

563 posts

239 months

Sunday 5th August 2012
quotequote all
Gary C said:
A Hawk is on the list of the cars I want to build on retiring, and I would have an alfa V6 in it, maybe with some high overlap cams, carbs and lots of banging and popping smile

Edited by Gary C on Sunday 5th August 10:33
Jenvey ITBs are the only option beyond the standard single plenum set up.
Every Alfa V6 Stratos rep. engine is canted, and there are no carb manifolds available. Fitting IDF or DCNF webers would be very difficult.
The only production Alfa V6 with carbs. was a 3.0 S.A. GTV6, which ran 6 individual single downdraught carbs. To fit one of those to a FWD Alfa gearbox, you'd need to have a modified bell housing and one off engine mounts.

There are a good half dozen Alfa V6 Hawks now with Jenveys.

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Monday 6th August 2012
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Ah well, carbs wou d probably be a pain anyway.

Stunning looking cars. Read about the hawk when it started out as the hf#000.

Been a simmering desire for a while now

rutthenut

202 posts

262 months

Saturday 1st September 2012
quotequote all
ADM06 said:
Blib said:
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).

hehe
So what you're saying is that oodles of effortless low down grunt in a lightweight car doesn't appeal to you?
Just catching up on this thread. I like a V8 rumble too. But for the Strat, it *has* to be a V6. Ideally one of Italian origin. Which is exactly why my car was ordered and then built with the Alfa V6. And then later upgraded to the 24v version of that engine, for more power.

In both 12v and 24v forms, I think you'd find that the Alfa Busso engine provides a fair old shove of low-down grunt, in the 900kg Stratos replica, coupled with a near-manic sound and rate of acceleration as the revs go through 3500 to 7200rpm. A very addictive noise. In keeping with the behaviour of the car.

Could point out that the standard 12v Alfa engine has more power and torque than the original Dino lump in the Lancia Stratos. My 24v engine surprised me at a rolling road recently to show it has 266bhp. And can be driven around in high gears at low speed whilst still providing throttle response if desired.

--
John Rutter, aka Rut the Nut

Gozza

3 posts

153 months

Wednesday 16th January 2013
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Just wanted to add one last comment.
Car has sold for £28k to a nice man in Sweden

Who would want to pay that much for a rep...well someone did

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Wednesday 16th January 2013
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Gozza said:
Just wanted to add one last comment.
Car has sold for £28k to a nice man in Sweden

Who would want to pay that much for a rep...well someone did
yikes