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rajkohli81
Original Poster
267 posts
75 months
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Zed Ed said: Dipped a shade due to Saturday's track sess , but only a tad  Must remind myself that the OP is comparing two cars he has never driven or owned. Anybody who can change gear will love the 86, and whilst not powerful it is quick point to point , for all the reasons we know well. Having come from an R35 which I had for 3 years, I am finding the BRZ a revelation, despite the 300bhp deficit  Have to say, I enjoyed my first track outing in the BRZ more than all the days I did in the GTR. The car is just so controllable and communicates so well with the driver. It's going to a love affair ( oh and you can overtake in it and does accelerate perfectly well in 6th gear.) OP has driven a GT86.. R35 never struck me as a driver's car, so I can see why this must really be a revelation for you.
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papercup
2,031 posts
88 months
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rajkohli81 said: papercup said: So you just admitted it isn't comparable. I think you should go back to school, your arguments belong there. Comparable in affordability, accessability and function.. but completely incomparable in ability.. that's the whole point. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp if you put your mind to it. Plenty of other PHers seem to have done just fine. But they haven't. They've been calling you a troll, stupid, etc etc for pages and pages now. You just look silly.
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wackojacko
8,462 posts
59 months
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M135i all day, £32K with a few choice options and you have yourself a fast 4 seater with an esq' of quality and refinement.
Opposed to a cheaply made, plasticy low powered Toyota.
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Johnboy Mac
2,666 posts
47 months
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hornetrider said:  He's either a troll or massively stupid. Both.
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SSBB
506 posts
25 months
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wackojacko said: M135i all day, £32K with a few choice options and you have yourself a fast 4 seater with an esq' of quality and refinement. This is exactly what the Toyota buyers are not looking for.
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otolith
19,408 posts
73 months
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It's cool that there is a choice of subtle driver's cars for those who appreciate them and rocket propelled family cars for those who don't. Something for everybody, although to be honest the market the BMW comes to was already well supplied before it turned up.
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SWoll
4,426 posts
127 months
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wackojacko said: M135i all day, £32K with a few choice options and you have yourself a fast 4 seater with an esq' of quality and refinement.
Opposed to a cheaply made, plasticy low powered Toyota. Oh great, another dips  t who can't see past his own choices and automatically derides everyone else's. Always a joy...
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SWoll
4,426 posts
127 months
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otolith said: It's cool that there is a choice of subtle driver's cars for those who appreciate them and rocket propelled family cars for those who don't. Something for everybody, although to be honest the market the BMW comes to was already well supplied before it turned up. Tbh I think most do appreciate subtle drivers cars, unfortunately I think that a good road car for everyday use needs more going for it than subtlety alone. Both cars are compromised in one way or another, It depends on which compromise you find more palatable.
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Johnnytheboy
7,168 posts
55 months
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kambites said: rajkohli81 said: Are you suggesting that the performance advantage of a 316 bhp car with 60 in 4.9 over a car with less than 200 brake and 60 time of 7.7 could only be demonstrated in a drag race from the lights?? No, not at all. I'm sure it could be demonstrated in lots of ways. That doesn't make me care any more. I think you need to understand the following statement: "To many driving enthusiasts, straight line speed is not important". I think you also need to acknowledge that to many other driving enthusiasts, straight line speed is important. There seems to be a growing conviction among defenders of the GT86 that to think how fast a car goes is important makes you not a proper petrolhead. If you stop and think about that statement in isolation, it's patently absurd. It's entirely true to say that performance is only one factor in what makes a car enjoyable. In the context of this comparison I think it's fair to say the GT86 will be a better sports car but that the BMW will be a better all rounder. ETA: in other words, what SWoll just said. What saddens me is the impression that threads like this give me: that I'm not allowed to like both, but one more than the other. 
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Zed Ed
669 posts
52 months
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rajkohli81 said: R35 never struck me as a driver's car yep, I'd have a 135 over a GTR any day   You are making it worse
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otolith
19,408 posts
73 months
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SWoll said: otolith said: It's cool that there is a choice of subtle driver's cars for those who appreciate them and rocket propelled family cars for those who don't. Something for everybody, although to be honest the market the BMW comes to was already well supplied before it turned up. Tbh I think most do appreciate subtle drivers cars, unfortunately I think that a good road car for everyday use needs more going for it than subtlety alone. Both cars are compromised in one way or another, It depends on which compromise you find more palatable. Indeed - though if straight line pace and torque are what really does it for you and you are happy with a hotted up family car, the 276bhp Astra VXR is going to be a lot cheaper than the BMW. I think people considering this are more likely to be considering that than they are the Toyota.
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Johnboy Mac
2,666 posts
47 months
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Johnnytheboy said: What saddens me is the impression that threads like this give me: that I'm not allowed to like both, but one more than the other. For sure one can like both but sadly the OP thinks they are comparable, see opening post - and of course the cars are not. The fact that the OP does compare them tells you loads (about him) and in the process comparing both cars is actually a complement to Toyota considering the differences, like one being an out & out sports car short on BHP, torque, space & badge kudos against the BM.
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SWoll
4,426 posts
127 months
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otolith said: SWoll said: otolith said: It's cool that there is a choice of subtle driver's cars for those who appreciate them and rocket propelled family cars for those who don't. Something for everybody, although to be honest the market the BMW comes to was already well supplied before it turned up. Tbh I think most do appreciate subtle drivers cars, unfortunately I think that a good road car for everyday use needs more going for it than subtlety alone. Both cars are compromised in one way or another, It depends on which compromise you find more palatable. Indeed - though if straight line pace and torque are what really does it for you and you are happy with a hotted up family car, the 276bhp Astra VXR is going to be a lot cheaper than the BMW. I think people considering this are more likely to be considering that than they are the Toyota. I do enjoy straight line pace and torque yes, but I think we both appreciate that the BMW has more to offer than that. There are many reasons why the vxr will be cheaper than the BMW. If you don't appreciate them then fair enough.
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otolith
19,408 posts
73 months
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SWoll said: There are many reasons why the vxr will be cheaper than the BMW. If you don't appreciate them then fair enough. I must confess, I never lick car interior plastics, so much of the BMW's appeal would be lost on me If forced to choose, I would probably take the BMW over the Astra VXR, but then I don't really like front wheel drive. Others might not agree. Incidentally, the CAR report appears to suggest that this car uses the same fake synthesised engine noise as the new M5, but it isn't mentioned anywhere else - anybody know? CAR said: Even the soundtrack is great, a proper hard-edged BMW six snarl, 90% of which is real, say BMW’s engineers. The last 10% is synthetic, added to make up for the silencing effect of the turbo, though it’s so convicincing, you’d never know otherwise.
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SWoll
4,426 posts
127 months
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otolith said: I must confess, I never lick car interior plastics, so much of the BMW's appeal would be lost on me You don't know what you're missing. What can I say, some of us just prefer the finer things in life...
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PlugUgly
61 posts
31 months
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I'm sure this has been said before, but your opinion of these two cars will likely stem from the sort of driving you do. If you use a lot of fast A/M roads then constantly having to rev the nads off the GT-86 to overtake might get tiring, likewise if you drive a lot of narrow B roads having a 'lardy' family car might put you off the BMW no matter how much more power it has.
The only problem I have with the GT-86 and it's siblings is the price, to me £25k seems a little steep. If it were priced closer to, what is in IMO its natural competition - the RenaultSport Clio 200 at ~£18k - then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
But then to undo my whole argument I've just seen that a 2 litre MX5 starts at £23k so maybe it's not that expensive after all and I'm just tight...
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Gaz.
47,171 posts
120 months
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rajkohli81 said: Gaz. said: rajkohli81 said: Interestingly, I have been asked to help sell a friends 2006 55 RX8 231. had it since new and 84k with a new engine at 19k. FMSH.. he's been offered £2k trade!! Will have to see what I can get for it, but that's abysmal! Hope the GT86, to which the RX8 is so commonly compared, fares better. Oh come on chap, at least make an effort here. Why would a GT86 even be compared to the residules of the RX8? The epic thirst of the RX8 and reliability (perceived or actual) kills the RX8. Perhaps a better comparison would be the Celica GT-Four's & T-Sport, perhaps the Supra etc. I hope it holds better than a Celica T-Sport, for any owners sake. You do realise that the resale value of the Celica T-sport/GT & 130i M-sport hatch are identical, don't you?
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SWoll
4,426 posts
127 months
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And the new Astra VXR starts at £27k...
If it fits the bill then the BMW is starting to look a bit of a bargain imho
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Johnnytheboy
7,168 posts
55 months
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otolith
19,408 posts
73 months
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PlugUgly said: I'm sure this has been said before, but your opinion of these two cars will likely stem from the sort of driving you do. If you use a lot of fast A/M roads then constantly having to rev the nads off the GT-86 to overtake might get tiring, likewise if you drive a lot of narrow B roads having a 'lardy' family car might put you off the BMW no matter how much more power it has.
The only problem I have with the GT-86 and it's siblings is the price, to me £25k seems a little steep. If it were priced closer to, what is in IMO its natural competition - the RenaultSport Clio 200 at ~£18k - then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
But then to undo my whole argument I've just seen that a 2 litre MX5 starts at £23k so maybe it's not that expensive after all and I'm just tight... I think you are right about the sort of driving people do. With the Clio, I think it is unrealistic to benchmark the GT-86 against a very basic small family car which happens to have a larger engine fitted than the £11625 entry level car. Of course the Clio is cheaper, it's turned out in massive volumes and is a generic small front wheel drive hatch! It's similar money to a 158bhp 1.8 litre Audi TT or 210bhp 2.0 TSi Scirocco or a 200bhp 1.6 THP Peugeot RCZ, none of which benefits from being built on costly bespoke hardware.
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