RE: Caterham: the future

[AE82GT]

If Caterham build the 7 outside the UK i'm selling mine in protest and ditching them. I hope the new FD spend as much time reading feedback on PH as Ansar did. And as a member of the motorsport fraternity of Caterham we are the ones who pump endless cash into there pockets. Dont tell me a 30K R300 is not profitable - Just another great example of a bean counter running a business...not smart.

Get the hint Graham.... Caterham is british. Built in Britain thats the brand.

[190251cars]

Can somebody please explain to me how moving production out of the UK and yet retain its British identity works?????
Bentley (BMW)
Mini (BMW)
Rolls Royce (VW)
At least these 3 are made in the UK., and in this way, possibly do retain some of their British identity.

[DKL]

rev-erend said:

Has anyone driven the 21 ?

Or own one ?

Yep, today in fact. Failed its MOT not on too much though.
Accountants in charge is not generally considered the best way forward for a creative enterprise but its balance sheet may "improve".
We're in a recession - make them simpler and cheaper. I looked at a series 1 Lotus Seven today - ok certain things have to change for new car regs etc but it made the current range look clumsy and fussy.

[thinfourth2]

seefarr said:

So. . . you're suggesting a Caterham 4x4 is the way forward?

Mmmm

Wouldn't say no

[thinfourth2]

Well the lotus/caterham 7 has been around since 1957

Caterham themselves had had a few attempts at bettering it with the 21 and the CSR and still the 7 keeps going

[Renn Sport]

Why did Ansar Ali leave?

Did Tony want him in another position?

How does the new chap qualify to run this company? Does he have the credentials?

I do not understand this at all?

[kambites]

sunsurfer said:

kambites said:

Actually, I think a sort of modern-day MG Midget would be a great addition to Caterham's range.

Base it on a slightly stretched (in both directions) Seven chassis. Say 800kg; 100bhp; simple manual roof that can be operated from the driver's seat, proper doors, windows, heater, etc. and not much more. Reckon that could be sold at a profit for for 14k?

I was thinking this.
I don't know the gender breakdown of seven owners but I suspect it may be 90% male. Would a smaller, less powerful but more comfortable Midget/Cappucino type car also appeal to the other 50% of drivers?

I'm not sure they could sell it for £14k though...

Yes I noticed that's the base price of a Seven, so I edited my post.

[Toaster]

Food for thought....http://www.open.edu/openlearn/whats-on/ou-on-the-bbc-caterham-super-sevens-caterham-survival-the-fastest

and a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIrtwZ-DV58 Caterham seven survival of the fastest filmed about 10 years ago

[dandarez]

£40-£50k?
Lost already then.

The Walkletts at DARE have the right idea with their new sports car (coming 2013).

Aiming right at the G40R in the £30k bracket.
The new car, which has been worked on for some time now, will even come with electric windows and air-con, with a target weight of 750-800kg (which they have proven so many times in the past with Ginetta that they can easily achieve).

And being fitted with Ford's turbocharged Ecoboost engine it's rated EuroV on emissions, which means the car can be easily type-approved.

Any higher price that £30k in today's market with so much competition you might as well not bother.

[splitpin]

Put a bean-counter in charge and it's no surprise at all that a priority thought/question seems to be whether or not to build the apparently much needed new road car in the UK.

Always put an accountant on the Board if you'd want to know in mind-numbing detail why your company went bust.

Totally Feckin Clueless, God Help Them.

[anonymous-user]

The issue with moving away from the "extreme sports car market" is that suddenly you have to spend an absolutely huge amount of money on stuff that customers will immediately take for granted. For example, doors that shut nicely, are sealed, don't have excessive wind noise, don't pop open in a crash, which don't mist up or get covered in rain, allow you to see the mirrors easily, have windows that opened smoothly and reliably / quietly, have a locking system that is robust and remotely operated, even have things like puddle lamps, warning lamps etc. Toyota will have spent more money on the door mirrors on the GT86 than Caterham spent on the entire interior of the seven over its whole life!

The list of detail design and development as soon as you move to a more "habitable" cockpit is enormous, unless you can take a previous platform (like an Elise Mk1) then i can't ever seen the numbers adding up. Most people with £40k to spend on a sportscar will still buy the porsche etc.

it's the same quandery that Lotus face. You must have volume to have costs that are low enough to make the product profitable, but, you can't afford the necessary development investment/time to produce a car of high enough quality to actually sell in volume............

The Seven is just too small to ever be modified into a usable car by the masses (no proper doors for a start!) so it would have to be a new chassis and body.

15 years ago there was nothing like the amount of competition or options for a car selling for say £30k to £40k, now there are an awful lot of cars in that price bracket, and as such the sales volume is necessarily spread thinner.

IMO, Caterham should make the Seven and an ultra low volume track special, and then they should look at buying someone elses platform and "badge engineering" there way up if they want higher sales volumes.

[otolith]

Max_Torque said:

Most people with £40k to spend on a sportscar will still buy the porsche etc.

And they always will, even if you heavily compromise your 40k sportscar by making it as much of a daily-driver as the Porsche is. So don't even try to compete on their terms, compete on your own. Most people won't be interested, but screw them, unless you have ambitions to be Porsche, why do you care what most people will buy? The only make-or-break question is whether you can find enough people for the volumes you need.

[ewenm]

otolith said:

And they always will, even if you heavily compromise your 40k sportscar by making it as much of a daily-driver as the Porsche is. So don't even try to compete on their terms, compete on your own. Most people won't be interested, but screw them, unless you have ambitions to be Porsche, why do you care what most people will buy? The only make-or-break question is whether you can find enough people for the volumes you need.

It's not whether most people will buy the Porsche - that's a given. It's whether there are enough left that you can convince to buy your alternative.

[Twincam16]

I think part of the problem is that so far as the market is concerned, Caterham is the 7 and the 7 is Caterham. They can get away with flyweight motorsport specials as a result (F1, SP300R), but I'm not sure they'd be forgiven for varying the recipe on the road.
However, if they wanted to make a comfier full-bodied front-engined sports car, there's an ideal badge for the nose potentially in the offing, currently in the clutches of a certain Russian..

[Donkey62]

I doubt Caterham would loose jobs in UK on basis our labour rates is cheaper than Malaysian staff skill for skill, then add in training and retaining staff specialised jobs it will cost Caterham heck of a lot more than abroad, South America is only viable option labour wise tbh. The only reason for taking manufacturing to Malaysia would be some cross platform car with Proton or similar.

Caterham is in luxury position in that manufacturing processes desperately need updating whatever they decide to build and there's not a lot stopping them unlike Lotus who's had hands were tied in many respects.

[Mucus72]

I love my 7, had a 2003 SV for 2 years now. To the guy that said you have to have a 'recaro' ar@e to fit, balderdash. I am 15 stone and 6 foot 5 and the SV 7 fits beautifully.

I agree with the sentiment around a 30k stripped out road and track car, in the style of the Ginetta G40.

They should never try and make a 5 day a week drive to work style car, just too much competition, and that's not what it's about.

I drive a boring as hell Passat for 30000 miles pa, and live for those B road weekend blats and occasional track days. More of you guys should buy cheap old rep mobiles in a bangernomics style, and make sure that every other penny goes on the midlife crisis...

Dear Caterham, please continue to build low volume, low weight, track orientated, weekend wonders. The 2000 miles I do I year in my 7 are wild, seat of the pants joy rides. You cant believe the joy I get at 6am on a sunny morning when the garage door lifts...

And it's all about weight and handling. If you attempt a G40 clone, then it needs to be close to 700kg, and with the perfectly fine 200bhp Ford Duratech R400 lump. Replicate what you do with the 7 interior- just a few dials, pedals and crappy sheet of plastic. You dont need anything else. Oh, and I'd save pennies to an absolute max of £40k, but to sell it needs to be £35k, but maybe the R300 175bhp would be an OK lower price compromise.

[davepoth]

It would appear that the Swiss regulations are actually a precursor to future European regulations - that's why Caterham need something that's not a Seven.

I'm worried that the car they're talking about is going to be really rather expensive for what it is - at 1000kgs it's going to be a hardcore car, and I don't think the market is there for that sort of car at that sort of price.

[gavinhowe]

As the proud owner of a CSR 260 and a 911 Carrera S I am worried about another road car like the 21. I think Caterham should stick to what they are really good at rather than trying to build a Boxster. Having spend £45k on my Caterham 5 years ago I would like the following:

a similar looking open wheeled car
carbon tub
420kg rather than 500kg
better aero and smaller low drag front lights
improved build quality and no more rusty bolts

In summary a better hardcore small car that makes you smile at any speed!

Gavin Howe

[Iwantoneofthose]

Pr1964 said:

There isn't an equivalent to the 7 in a raw simple 4 seater format a very big hole in the Mkt.

It has been tried...


http://www.vindicator.co.uk/pages/gallery/04/index...

[MX7]

davepoth said:

It would appear that the Swiss regulations are actually a precursor to future European regulations - that's why Caterham need something that's not a Seven.

Why do you think that? Switzerland isn't even in the EU.