RE: Caterham: the future
Discussion
The Ford three cylinder, a modernised chassis and an entry/exit system that is everyday usable delivered within the current pricing framework is the direction I would try to be going.
Like the Morgan, the Seven is an iconic shape - mess with it at your peril.
On a slightly ropey comparison, that danger is exemplified by Bristol's moving from the 411 the 603.
Like the Morgan, the Seven is an iconic shape - mess with it at your peril.
On a slightly ropey comparison, that danger is exemplified by Bristol's moving from the 411 the 603.
TonyHetherington said:
How many times over the past 10-15yrs have we read, in all forms of press "Caterham can't continue to survive on just the Seven, and all its iterations" ?
And yet, they're still here. With shareholder's investments comes the requirement for expansion. However, I don't think Caterham should expand in that respect - I think they should maximise themselves for the market they serve but no more.
And yet, they're still here. With shareholder's investments comes the requirement for expansion. However, I don't think Caterham should expand in that respect - I think they should maximise themselves for the market they serve but no more.
I can understand why they want to get bigger, but it's getting tougher and tougher to do and I really don't want to see them ruined in the attempt.richb77 said:
Quite right. I cannot believe their next model is aimed at £40-50k range.
at £40-50k range your competing with a large range of competent machinery. Sorry to say but if i was to spunk £40k on a car (even a track toy) it would have to be a Porsche 911.
Yes i know its heavier and BHP/ton blah, blah blah but it can be stored outside, maintained by pretty much any garage and can be driven with ease too and from the track.
Dont get me wrong. If i could i would have a caterham (7) but its like an expensive motorbike. You have a car for when the "other vehicle" isnt practical.
You can't get a new 911 for £40k.at £40-50k range your competing with a large range of competent machinery. Sorry to say but if i was to spunk £40k on a car (even a track toy) it would have to be a Porsche 911.
Yes i know its heavier and BHP/ton blah, blah blah but it can be stored outside, maintained by pretty much any garage and can be driven with ease too and from the track.
Dont get me wrong. If i could i would have a caterham (7) but its like an expensive motorbike. You have a car for when the "other vehicle" isnt practical.
The new car isn't going to be a 7. I suspect it is going to be able to be stored outside, maintained by pretty much any garage (the 7 already can be) and be driven with ease to and from track, etc, etc (I did all this with my 7 but accept that many choose not to).
Trying to flog a new car at £40k+ with a 4-cyl engine might be a struggle though. Expectations are high and for many 4-cyl doesn't cut it.
The Seven is unique, it looks like no other car, it's very lightweight, and most importantly, sensational to drive. This is their USP. Cars like this don't come along very often. However, it will always be a toy, a second car to use for thrills on dry days. Yes, some people do use them everyday, but not many!
If they want to sell more cars I would have thought that it was easier to evolve new models of the Seven to appeal to a broader range of customers.
Improve aerodynamics and fuel efficiency, increase safety (add ABS and Traction Control - even an airbag is possible). Improve the weatherproofing. All of this could be done using the base car as a starting block, without having to almost double the weight
If there was a Seven you could more happily use everyday, it stops being a second car and I am sure they would sell a lot more.
This is the trend for all of the latest supercars, they are now much more practical and useable without compromising performance. This is done through a combination of technology and constant refinement.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Seven as it is (I have one), but it has limited appeal outside of committed petrolheads. They may strike it lucky with a new , heavier car, but it would have to be sensational.
If they want to sell more cars I would have thought that it was easier to evolve new models of the Seven to appeal to a broader range of customers.
Improve aerodynamics and fuel efficiency, increase safety (add ABS and Traction Control - even an airbag is possible). Improve the weatherproofing. All of this could be done using the base car as a starting block, without having to almost double the weight
If there was a Seven you could more happily use everyday, it stops being a second car and I am sure they would sell a lot more.
This is the trend for all of the latest supercars, they are now much more practical and useable without compromising performance. This is done through a combination of technology and constant refinement.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Seven as it is (I have one), but it has limited appeal outside of committed petrolheads. They may strike it lucky with a new , heavier car, but it would have to be sensational.
Good grief.
A car company with an icon like the 7, and they want to make something else, in another country. Madness.
Most small manufacturers would be delighted to have such a product. Porsche can't kill off the 911. Morgan are still making the same car.
Hope this acoountant chap isn't thinking of his brilliant new five car line-up....
A car company with an icon like the 7, and they want to make something else, in another country. Madness.
Most small manufacturers would be delighted to have such a product. Porsche can't kill off the 911. Morgan are still making the same car.
Hope this acoountant chap isn't thinking of his brilliant new five car line-up....
wile7 said:
This chat about Caterham diversifying always makes me anxious. TVR tried and died. Morgan kept the main car unchanged more or less (focused primarily on engines) and is doing ok. Yes, the 21 was a mistake but the mainstay of the business, the seven, is what the market wants. Not another variation. Develop the seven, engines etc but do not wander too far from the main focus. Demand for caterhams/lotus seven is strong. The old school cars even more so I think especially internationally. Look at developing old school style with modern internals and you will be fine. Try to add a new car into the mix now given the financial climate and Caterham will fail. Just my tuppence worth....
Yes, I agree. It’s taking a huge amount of money for Lotus to get itself back into the marketplace. I really don’t think that lightweight little sports cars are the way forward that they were many years ago. Lotus never made any money out of the Elise/Exige so why try to copy them? Additionally, Caterham are so well known for the 7 that this will require a major shift in public perceptions.
Lotus will not (despite some people’s hopes) let Caterham have the Elise chassis. TBH, if they hadn't had to sell it and could have seen what Caterham did with it I am pretty sure they'd never have sold it.
For the record, the 21 was really a disaster because it came out at the same time as the Elise which was hugely better in every single way. Just a case of bad timing for them and a far, far smaller budget.
Its an interesting point about the classic 7 vs. modern F1. Talk about stretching the brand!!
TonyHetherington said:
suffolk009 said:
Porsche can't kill off the 911
Although, to use Porsche as an example, they had to build the Boxster and Cayenne to save the company so they could continue making 911s (somewhat contradicting my point above, I realise).TonyHetherington said:
suffolk009 said:
Porsche can't kill off the 911
Although, to use Porsche as an example, they had to build the Boxster and Cayenne to save the company so they could continue making 911s (somewhat contradicting my point above, I realise).
suffolk009 said:
I'm no business boffin, but surely it's the 4x4 thingy that's bankrolling everything there. The Boxster and Cayenne were (I imagine) made because they had so much cash rolling in they were able to fuel their typically Germanic ambition.
You mean that Cayenne 4x4 thing? gazzapud said:
Two obvious comments here. Firstly a new car is not needed to survive but expand. Secondly you let the accountant take over and it is nearly guaranteed to fail as their arrogance will prevail. Watch for Caterham being up for sale in 2014 with the CEO blaming everyone but himself.
Almost as arrogant as assuming all accountants are arrogant (and no, I'm not an accountant). JTRacelogic said:
The Seven is unique, it looks like no other car, it's very lightweight, and most importantly, sensational to drive. This is their USP. Cars like this don't come along very often. However, it will always be a toy, a second car to use for thrills on dry days. Yes, some people do use them everyday, but not many!
If they want to sell more cars I would have thought that it was easier to evolve new models of the Seven to appeal to a broader range of customers.
Improve aerodynamics and fuel efficiency, increase safety (add ABS and Traction Control - even an airbag is possible). Improve the weatherproofing. All of this could be done using the base car as a starting block, without having to almost double the weight
If there was a Seven you could more happily use everyday, it stops being a second car and I am sure they would sell a lot more.
This is the trend for all of the latest supercars, they are now much more practical and useable without compromising performance. This is done through a combination of technology and constant refinement.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Seven as it is (I have one), but it has limited appeal outside of committed petrolheads. They may strike it lucky with a new , heavier car, but it would have to be sensational.
I concur, and good analogy about the other Supercars. If they want to sell more cars I would have thought that it was easier to evolve new models of the Seven to appeal to a broader range of customers.
Improve aerodynamics and fuel efficiency, increase safety (add ABS and Traction Control - even an airbag is possible). Improve the weatherproofing. All of this could be done using the base car as a starting block, without having to almost double the weight
If there was a Seven you could more happily use everyday, it stops being a second car and I am sure they would sell a lot more.
This is the trend for all of the latest supercars, they are now much more practical and useable without compromising performance. This is done through a combination of technology and constant refinement.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Seven as it is (I have one), but it has limited appeal outside of committed petrolheads. They may strike it lucky with a new , heavier car, but it would have to be sensational.
TonyHetherington said:
suffolk009 said:
Porsche can't kill off the 911
Although, to use Porsche as an example, they had to build the Boxster and Cayenne to save the company so they could continue making 911s (somewhat contradicting my point above, I realise).SS7
cathalm said:
Do you like me? I like me an awful lot. MMMMMMMMMMMMMM.... Me
I think it's inevitable that any discussion about Caterham expanding is bound to draw a comparison with Lotus.
It'll be interesting to see what they come up with. I have a feeling that they will only have one chance to get it right.
suffolk009 said:
TonyHetherington said:
suffolk009 said:
Porsche can't kill off the 911
Although, to use Porsche as an example, they had to build the Boxster and Cayenne to save the company so they could continue making 911s (somewhat contradicting my point above, I realise).Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff