RE: Time Attack uncovered

[binnerboy]

kins said:

No form of motorsport is cheap - even grass tracking and banger racing. Even track days are expensive when you factor in tyres, brake pads, fuel, servicing costs, track costs, fuel to get there, hotels, food etc.... and that's best case if you don't have an off.

At the end of the day motorsport is an expensive hobby and you have to pay to play.

yes I know I just like to kid myself and play down the costs trying to justify it to myself but hey maybe a couple of sprints next year and that will keep me happy, cheap is relative especially with motorsport, sprinting is cheap compared to clio cup racing which is cheap compared to F1 , my problem is I am cheap relative to motorsport

[Riggers]

binnerboy said:

Cheap is relative especially with motorsport, sprinting is cheap compared to clio cup racing which is cheap compared to F1 , my problem is I am cheap relative to motorsport

Quote of the day, that!

[jeremyc]

So do you need a race licence?

[DanDC5]

Riggers said:

binnerboy said:

Cheap is relative especially with motorsport, sprinting is cheap compared to clio cup racing which is cheap compared to F1 , my problem is I am cheap relative to motorsport

Quote of the day, that!

Couldn't sum it up better to be fair.

[Startline Al]

jeremyc said:

So do you need a race licence?

For entry into the Pro Classes you will require a MSA National B ‘Race’ Licence and for the Club Classes a MSA National B ‘Non Race’ Licence

[kins]

True true.

To be fair sprinting is about as cheap as it gets. Entry fees are about the same as a track day, you spend less time on track so cheaper running costs (tyres, brakes, servicing items) and there's less things to run into (ie other cars on track). Still a good craic with that competitiveness we all crave. Racing the clock and other cars in class is nearly as much fun as wheel to wheel racing in many respects.

Lets face it though - it's all directly proportional and our toys get more expensive as our disposable income increases.

It's the guys at club level, who sacrifice their quality of life to make the next race/round who I have the most respect for. To some racing is a way of life and you have to admire that "You can sleep in your car, but you can't race your house!" attitude.

[binnerboy]

kins said:

It's the guys at club level, who sacrifice their quality of life to make the next race/round who I have the most respect for. To some racing is a way of life and you have to admire that "You can sleep in your car, but you can't race your house!" attitude.

indeed, actual respect to them rather than the street variety

[JamesHayward]

Skydragon said:

Ref sction 5 of regs >>Pro Classes (except Prototype) and Club Challenge Classes- space/tube Frame chassis of any description are not permitted<<

I guess this effectively bans Caterhams, Westfields, etc from competing in time attack ;-(

Does anyone know why they do this?

Not entirely true. I think it's done on a case by case basis as my entry, in the MEV Exocet, was approved.

[chrenan]

Is amateur time attack not common in the UK? What format are your track days, just untimed lapping?

I've only ever done one "lapping" day that was untimed, but many, many time attack events. Locally the classes are kept simple, Race (R-comps and slicks), Modified (treadware under 220) and Street (treadware over 220). Run groups are generally organized by class, and to some degree historical lap times of the competitors. Makes for an entertaining evening at the track.

[Skydragon]

[quote] Because the space frame cars can be silly light (t45 frame and carbon shell etc), have ubber rigid chassis and effectively do what the hell they like with suspension points.

That's kind of unfair for the guys running oem shells and not everyone has the budget for a space frame build. The rule is a leveler and the OEM shell is effectively a physical restricter.
[/quote]

I'm not suggesting that a 'sevenesque' car (Catreham, westfield, etc) should compete in the same class as the tintops. But commenting that it's a shame that there isn't a RWD Clubmans class for this type of car. eg. the same or similar to the MSA 'Road going Specialist production car' class

[kins]

Skydragon said:

I'm not suggesting that a 'sevenesque' car (Catreham, westfield, etc) should compete in the same class as the tintops. But commenting that it's a shame that there isn't a RWD Clubmans class for this type of car. eg. the same or similar to the MSA 'Road going Specialist production car' class

I hear what you're saying.

However I don't feel such cars are in-keeping with the spirit of Time Attack. If you look at the sports origins

said:

Time attack (alternatively known as Super Lap or Tuner Battles) originated in Japan when the tuning media organized the event on race circuits such as Tsukuba Circuit, where it commonly occurs, as a proving ground for street tuned cars built with a large budget by tuning companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_attack

I don't feel Caterhams, and if I be so bold to say "kit car" Caterham 7 derivatives can be really classified as a street car. Lets face it - anything that left the factory with a tube chassis is not really a road car is it?!

Caterham's have their own race series, Radical's do and I'm sure I read recently there is soon to be an Atom series so those lot have their place within motorsport - I'm just not sure if they fit in with the heavily modified street cars within Time Attack.

PS - For the record - if Radical's were allowed in Time Attack, I personally feel a heavily modified Radical, piloted by the right driver, would wipe the floor with the lot of them.

Edited by kins on Saturday 21st July 11:05

[GC8]

Captain Muppet said:

I haven't watched Time Attack for years - it used to be full of "tuner cars" and some of the driving was hilarious, with guys being feet away from turn in and apex kerbs and using wildly different lines every lap.

Seems a lot more professional now, yet they've kept it friendly. Nice work.

Norris

*nods*

[Skydragon]

Kins

Yes, agreed, the series has it's roots and main interests in tuned jap tintops. Which is no bad thing.

[emicen]

kins said:

Skydragon said:

I'm not suggesting that a 'sevenesque' car (Catreham, westfield, etc) should compete in the same class as the tintops. But commenting that it's a shame that there isn't a RWD Clubmans class for this type of car. eg. the same or similar to the MSA 'Road going Specialist production car' class

I hear what you're saying.

However I don't feel such cars are in-keeping with the spirit of Time Attack. If you look at the sports origins

said:

Time attack (alternatively known as Super Lap or Tuner Battles) originated in Japan when the tuning media organized the event on race circuits such as Tsukuba Circuit, where it commonly occurs, as a proving ground for street tuned cars built with a large budget by tuning companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_attack

I don't feel Caterhams, and if I be so bold to say "kit car" Caterham 7 derivatives can be really classified as a street car. Lets face it - anything that left the factory with a tube chassis is not really a road car is it?!

Caterham's have their own race series, Radical's do and I'm sure I recently read recently there is soon to be an Atom series so those lot have their place within motorsport - I'm just not sure if they fit in with the heavily modified street cars within Time Attack.

PS - For the record - if Radical's were allowed in Time Attack, I personally feel a heavily modified Radical, piloted by the right driver, would wipe the floor with the lot of them.

An SR3 on slicks will do Knockhill 2 seconds faster than any TA car without heavy (any) modification

[kins]

emicen said:

An SR3 on slicks will do Knockhill 2 seconds faster than any TA car without heavy (any) modification

Well that's an interesting statement but what exactly are you comparing there - the fastest ever standard SR3 vs the fastest time of any Time Attack car to lap the hill? Weather at the hill is notoriously bad - are you comparing dry laps on slicks to dry laps on slicks?

Yes standard Radicals are rapid straight out of the box but I would argue that some of the top Time Attack cars are quicker!

For example - lets take NR Autosports Pro Class evo - that's not even running full boost at the minute because right now it doesn't need to. Or if you what about Redbrick Racing's TA evo or even RCM Gobstopper II (when it appears) and put them on slicks, on the same day with the same driver I'm pretty sure they would whoop a standard SR3.

Or if the current UK Time Attack regs allowed a space framed, carbon bodied, TA car like "Nemo" and added that to the equation then it would be a different story again.

I'm guessing an SR3 would need some decent mods to keep up with those guys.

[djroadboy]

I think the fact that Chris Randall entered his underpowered Europa in TA at Brands for a giggle and had the 3rd fastest time overall says a lot about the quality of the series compared to many club racing championships both in terms of engineering and driving ability.

[LiamM45]

I really want to have a go at this when I finish my Mk1 Golf which is being built with sprinting in mind.

I did laugh at the rules surrounding the presentation of your pit area and pit crew, are they very strict? I just want a to take the car on a trailer and maybe stick it under a large gazebo!

[jamwill79]

To be fair though Dan, so far, this year has not been good for setting mega fast laptimes/records and a few of the big name cars have not turned up. For example, Steve G in his Audi Exige set a laptime 2 years ago on road tyres, that would have beat everyone on slicks at Brands the other week by well over a second.

Also, Chris Randall probably has more driving experience than almost anyone else in the series. I also wouldn't mind betting that his Europa has had more time and money thrown at it than 95% of the other cars there, so no surprise he did well really!!!

[Scottie - NW]

Time Attack is the worst motorsport I have watched for years.

I have been to a lot of the events, from Oulton to Snetterton and organised club stands there etc. I have also have 4 different friends compete and have assisted as pit crew.

After watching I feel like i've come away from only seeing a qualifying session. Nobody in the crowd seems to understand what is going on and the only good parts of the day are the guest races they have like Alfa's or Mini's etc.

One of my friends got his car wrote off by another competitor, the problem with this format is that any muppet can spend a lot of money, tune a stupidly quick EVO or whatever to 600bhp, then take it on track with almost no experience.

At least with other types of racing you start off with lower power, be it XR or MR2 challenge etc and work your way up.

All in all I find just about every other type of event better to watch so don't go to Time Attack any more.

[cliffie]

There is indeed a 900 BHP GTR competing in Club Class this year and we have met on track every round so far. It is a given that he thumps me on the straights but under braking and in the corners, I am all over him. He is quick and may fall foul of the three strike rule which will automatically put him up to the next class.