|
roystinho
869 posts
44 months
|
LotusOmega375D said: HFLagos said: Clio Williams...  I'll see your Integrale and raise you a Turbo 2:  Both fabulous hot-hatches but sold off 4 or 5 years ago now. Lovely cars. Renault 5 turbo 2 is in my dream garage
|
|
|
TameRacingDriver
8,226 posts
141 months
|
Alex said: TameRacingDriver said: The only thing I'd say in the DC2 is that it is kind of clinical - almost TOO polished at everything. But I love them. I'd have mine back tomorrow! I can understand someone thinking the DC2 lacks excitement after a short drive. However, the thing about the DC2 is that it rewards acquaintance. The longer you own and drive one, the more in awe of its talent you become, especially on a circuit. I should know, I did 83,000 miles in mine! Totally. I had mine longer than I've owned any car previously. I wish I hadn't got rid of it TBH. I only did because it needed work, so swapped for an MX5, which was charming in its own way, but nowhere near the weapon the DC2 was. You really have to get that engine howling in its power band, then half of its appeal becomes clear. The other half is that no matter how you drive it, it rewards. You can drive it delicately like you would an Elise, and it rewards with ridiculous grip. You can also drive like a Clio sport and throw it around by the scruff of its neck, with equally huge grins. Brilliant cars. I'd have another if I could afford to buy another. ETA: I've just looked in the classifieds, these are quite cheap now. If I'd not just spent £1,500 putting my 172 right, I'd have just gone and got one of these again 
|
|
|
ballfg59
7 posts
16 months
|
Surly the Escort Cosworth, is no different to in size respect to an modern focus st and that is an obvious hot hatch of the current day. So I do not see why it would never be classed as a hot hatch? end of the day, the focus did replace the escort..... dont wanna argue, just an opinion.
The Iconic cars, the ones thats set the boundries, I think will class as the 'best'
Golf mk1 gti
Pug 205 gti
Both mass produced, not really limited production numbers, such as the delta (still an amazing car) everyday performance cars, without massive ownership costs, setting the goal posts for other manufactures.
Escort Cosworth- in a class of its own, still my favorite car of all time, no comprimise, the ability to massivly increase the hp without strenthening internals, the god of engines with the yb, insane looks, insane insurance costs, rally bred, and not one panel of a standard ecsort would fit, true engineering development, not just replaced the engine n a few bits here n there off a standard escort.
The other 2 just for what they are in respect to modern design/technology
Honda civic type R ep3 (197bhp from an n/a 2.0 with amazing handling, on a track quicker that most forced inducted cars in its class, just such a good drivers car, with the revs to match, plus unbelievable reliability for such a highly sprung engine)
And the Clio v6/focus RS mk2 (cant decide) purly for the bonkers look, thats all, both not amazing performers, just insane in the design department.
|
|
|
ballfg59
7 posts
16 months
|
sorry for the spelling, at work and rushing, just thought would reply before the boss catches me doing not alot
|
|
|
Special K
888 posts
28 months
|
yonex said: Special K said: The Honda Integra DC2+DC5 as well as the Civic Type R have always been a disappointment for me. I found them to be hugely capable at what they do but lacking in excitement and a little soulless. Great cars but not as good as the hype that surrounded them. This is just my opinion of driving these cars and I'm sure many will disagree so don't take it personally if you're a huge 172 or Honda fan  Well I dont think the DC2/5 is in the same league as the EP3 its a totally different experience. I have to say it took two test drives in a DC2 to convince me to buy one. The first I drove it around with the sales guy and only really poodled about. It felt ok but quite breathless and the ride wasn't great. The second drive I was in my local Honda dealer and I know the guy quite well. I told him I had had a go in one and he was surprised I didn't fall in love with it. 'tell you what I have one just in, its not prep'd yet so go and rag the ass off it'. I did exactly that and 30 mins later had put a deposit down. They're not marmite cars but you really have to give them 8/10 to start having fun. Once they get under your skin you can appreciate the finer points about them, their almost limitless balance and the tenancity of the front end when you commit. A truely great car with very few peers. Yet to drive a DC5 but I have heard plenty of good things about them. BTW I would class the EP3 as a hot hatch and the DC2/5 as coupes. Be careful. You're not allowed to have an opinion on the Integra, oh hang on you praised it, you'll be ok 
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
vz-r_dave
2,513 posts
87 months
|
Special K said: yonex said: Special K said: The Honda Integra DC2+DC5 as well as the Civic Type R have always been a disappointment for me. I found them to be hugely capable at what they do but lacking in excitement and a little soulless. Great cars but not as good as the hype that surrounded them. This is just my opinion of driving these cars and I'm sure many will disagree so don't take it personally if you're a huge 172 or Honda fan Well I dont think the DC2/5 is in the same league as the EP3 its a totally different experience. I have to say it took two test drives in a DC2 to convince me to buy one. The first I drove it around with the sales guy and only really poodled about. It felt ok but quite breathless and the ride wasn't great. The second drive I was in my local Honda dealer and I know the guy quite well. I told him I had had a go in one and he was surprised I didn't fall in love with it. 'tell you what I have one just in, its not prep'd yet so go and rag the ass off it'. I did exactly that and 30 mins later had put a deposit down. They're not marmite cars but you really have to give them 8/10 to start having fun. Once they get under your skin you can appreciate the finer points about them, their almost limitless balance and the tenancity of the front end when you commit. A truely great car with very few peers. Yet to drive a DC5 but I have heard plenty of good things about them. BTW I would class the EP3 as a hot hatch and the DC2/5 as coupes. Be careful. You're not allowed to have an opinion on the Integra, oh hang on you praised it, you'll be ok If you have owned one/tracked one and you come out stating that it lacks soul/event I will eat my shorts and the dirty boxers lol. That is all. Sorry if I came across as a bit of a w  ker.
|
|
|
Special K
888 posts
28 months
|
I've never owned a DC2/5 but I have driven both on circuit. Don't get me wrong they are both very good cars, I just preferred the Renaults ! I've driven a hell of a lot of other cars too hence the broad statement, I've instructed for a few driving experience days hence the evaluation on other cars. None taken
|
|
|
mallygreen
20 posts
59 months
|
|
|
Special K
888 posts
28 months
|
mallygreen said: Evo triangle ? Very jealous, great car
|
|
|
yonex
2,861 posts
37 months
|
Special K said: Be careful. You're not allowed to have an opinion on the Integra, oh hang on you praised it, you'll be ok No worries, I owned one years before they were fashionable and it was great in 1999, nobody had a clue about them. My colleagues at the time all said 'Why did you buy a Honda', a few test rides later they understood I had so many epic drives and blasts with all sorts of cars at the time, perhaps its more the rose tinted specs as the last one I drove felt a bit flat after the NSX?
|
|
|
WayneWRC
30 posts
10 months
|
Have to agree with the Evo1. Even though I own an Evo2 (Purley because the Evo2 is a much more astecially pleasing and rarer car)the Evo1 has the history and was the last homologation car produced.
2nd choice would be the Evo2!!
And I'll tell you why:
Get it on a good bit of twisty road and in standard guise, there's pretty much nothing that can live with it. It has no real driver aids (bar ABS) no trick diffs, no TCS, none of the modern 'makes it easier to drive quick' crap that you find in modern motors.
It's a pure drivers car. Stick it into a corner to quick and lift off and you'll pay a dear price. But learn to drive it and it will reward you more than any other car out there.
It's the only car I've ever owned that truly turn heads. Not the 'you smug tw@ or f#####g hot hatch driving c0ck' turn heads, it really is admired by pretty much anyone with an ounce of petrol in their vains.
Oh and it's quicker 60-80 than an F355!
|
|
|
rallycross
4,659 posts
106 months
|
[quote=WayneWRC] there's pretty much nothing that can live with it. It has no real driver aids (bar ABS) no trick diffs, no TCS, none of the modern 'makes it easier to drive quick' crap that you find in modern motors.
quote]
Its a great car from its era but sorry to inform you that what you have just said is total rubbish, go for a drive in a Spec C impreza or Evo Rs/9Gt and you will see what I mean.
|
|
|
daveparry
894 posts
69 months
|
Fiat Uno Turbo ie
Mk1 Golf GTi
Renault Turbo
Lancia Delta Integrale
|
|
|
WayneWRC
30 posts
10 months
|
rb5er said: Or if some people knew what a hot hatch is. Quite simply an Escort Cosworth and Integrale have NEVER been classified as hot hatches, unless it has just been a huge mistake and they have totally accidentally been left out of EVERY SINGLE hot hatch shootout by EVERY SINGLE magazine for the last 15 or 20 years With all due respect, you may hav to look further back. I have one of the very last Integrales produced.....it is 19yrs old. You may want to consider write ups from mags other than max trumper and the like (If you'd like to PM me, I have plenty of write ups comparing bothe the Grale' and the cosy as hot hatches, I'll quite glady PDF them and send them to you). The origional Delta was designed in 1979 with a 1.3 NA engine. It was desgined as an affordable sopping car for mass production and mass sales (Ring any bells?) It was only when CroupB was sadly ended that Lancia had no other real choice than take the Delta and bastardise it, to create (eventually) the Integrale. It was reproduced in several guises (from 8v to 2.0tbo evo1 as homoligation cars). Even I can see this starting to sound a little like a golf GTI, Civic Type R, Leon and pretty much any other car you may wish to considder a hot hatch? A car which started out life for you mum.....then for yourwife.........and finally evolved for you.
|
|
|
WayneWRC
30 posts
10 months
|
rallycross]ayneWRC said: there's pretty much nothing that can live with it. It has no real driver aids (bar ABS) no trick diffs, no TCS, none of the modern 'makes it easier to drive quick' crap that you find in modern motors.
quote]
Its a great car from its era but sorry to inform you that what you have just said is total rubbish, go for a drive in a Spec C impreza or Evo Rs/9Gt and you will see what I mean. Rallycross: Completley take on board what you're saying. Unfortunatley Lancia owners like myself are stuck in 1993 where cars like this were pretty much unmatched. While I agree that modern semi supercar daly drivers are able to out perform cars from the 'golden area' of motor sport (excluding GrB) Given the technology available the Grale' was simply untouchable. Now obvously I'm not bias and I assume you been full chat in all the above cars, the only thing seperating them is grip! I have owned (for my sins) an FQ4 and a P1 neither of which could come close to the connection between you and the car and road. Perhaps I may have overhyped the cars ability, but you are more than welcome to drive my car and give me your thoughts compared to that of a modern semi drivers car!! Thanks for the response, it's nice to hear an alternate opinion.............
|
|
|
SlimJim16v
116 posts
12 months
|
Lancia Delta HF integrale
Renault 5 turbo maxi/2
Vauxhall Chevette HSR
Lotus Sunbeam
Renault Clio V6
|
|
|
SlimJim16v
116 posts
12 months
|
WayneWRC said: Stick it into a corner to quick and lift off and you'll pay a dear price. Bull! The integrale is near idiot proof and will get you through unforeseen dangers in one piece where other cars will leave you waiting for a recovery truck.
|
|
|
Locke
1,177 posts
53 months
|
|
|
rb5er
4,555 posts
41 months
|
WayneWRC said: rb5er said: Or if some people knew what a hot hatch is. Quite simply an Escort Cosworth and Integrale have NEVER been classified as hot hatches, unless it has just been a huge mistake and they have totally accidentally been left out of EVERY SINGLE hot hatch shootout by EVERY SINGLE magazine for the last 15 or 20 years With all due respect, you may hav to look further back. I have one of the very last Integrales produced.....it is 19yrs old. You may want to consider write ups from mags other than max trumper and the like (If you'd like to PM me, I have plenty of write ups comparing bothe the Grale' and the cosy as hot hatches, I'll quite glady PDF them and send them to you). The origional Delta was designed in 1979 with a 1.3 NA engine. It was desgined as an affordable sopping car for mass production and mass sales (Ring any bells?) It was only when CroupB was sadly ended that Lancia had no other real choice than take the Delta and bastardise it, to create (eventually) the Integrale. It was reproduced in several guises (from 8v to 2.0tbo evo1 as homoligation cars). Even I can see this starting to sound a little like a golf GTI, Civic Type R, Leon and pretty much any other car you may wish to considder a hot hatch? A car which started out life for you mum.....then for yourwife.........and finally evolved for you. Please do post these writeups, I especially enjoy it when someone posts something as "proof" only to have not read it properly themselves and it actually disproves them such as "nemesis of the hot hatchback"  What magazine is "max trumper"? Please do post these articles.
|
|
|
300bhp/ton
Original Poster
26,483 posts
59 months
|
rb5er said: Please do post these writeups, I especially enjoy it when someone posts something as "proof" only to have not read it properly themselves and it actually disproves them such as "nemesis of the hot hatchback" What magazine is "max trumper"? Please do post these articles. It's hardly my fault that you don't understand English so instead make stuff up and delude yourself. You may want to try a dictionary followed up with some common sense.
|
|
