Id rather get a horse than spend my money on a slush 'boxed soul destroyer

How pedantic

You still don't get the concept that figure still represents in the hundreds of thousands, or even possibly more, actual car sales.

I've found it quite the opposite.

Car in the US would not include trucks (obviously) but also SUVs so the total volume is not as great as people might expect, so while 2011 came in at 12.8mln total units, with a very broadly 50/50 split car/truck you are talking 6.4m cars so with 3% maybe we are looking at 200k manuals across the market. Not a lot!

Now as for the why - well I have to say I like Auto boxes, they make life easier, but somehow I just like the whole interraction and "feel" you get from a manual car. So for the petrol head it's a positive, but maybe we arn't talking performance here.

I once was involved with Geo Metro sales (I shall have this crime bought up at the pearly gates) and the auto in that was undriveable - so maybe it is the small eco boxes as a result of high fuel costs that are driving manual sales? Just a thought?

Just a thought......

We all know about "statistics" - what is the percentage of true sports models using the oft qouted M series BMW's as the example, sold in the USA against alL the standard 'cooking' models, all presumably with some form of auto box ?

I know the debate has raged ad infinitum as to why in Europe the standard hot versions are now equipped with SMG, PDK, DSG, S -Tronic or whatever other acronym the manufacturers like to chuck at it - not forgetting the good ? old fashioned slush pump with torque converter !

PS > I know the eagle eyed and minded amongst you will quickly list ALL THE MODELS available with MANUAL as the alternative OPTION - save your typing time as I am also aware thanks.

Hasn't anybody mentioned the massive increase of future repair costs £££££ to these incredibly technical electro/mechanical systems ?

Not at all wishing to re stir that particular hornets nest......but as a manual MkIV Golf R32 owner I read with great interest/shock the regular technical enquiries re the DSG system as fitted to MKV R32's and other related VW/Audi group vehicles so equipped. The regular mention of Mechatronic failures and gear/clutch non selections etc, etc, up to full warranty replacements of complete gearbox & mechatronic assemblies for the fortunate few who had extended warranties - frightening !

By the way I am NOT slating VW/AUDI here only stating what can be read by any visitor to a public OC Forum, like the venerable Pistonheads (or should that read v******l) :-))

I guess at the end of the day its all biased to the fact this is the current state of the art equipment that the manufacturers want us to have. Fine if you have full new vehicle warranty and a massive CAVEAT EMPTOR once into the second hand market, where a lot of us look to pick up these toys of delight after some serious depreciation has set in !!

Enjoy

Oakman

You seem to miss the point every time.

I think you both understand that it's a small percentage, but as it's the US it's a LOT of cars, which is why they sell the M5 manual over there as they will sell far more of even the manuals as a small percentage of total M5 sales than they would over here probably if they only sold the manual.

Still it's a 100% increase in sales of manual cars in the US so I'm glad about that.

Let's also note that you could increase the % of manual sales from 3.9 to 7.0% by not increasing the number of manaul cars sold but by decreasing the number of autos sold.

As such, the data is meaningless without actual numbers because it could signify that the general trend in the US if that fewer people are buying cars but those who typically by manuals are wealthier and their buying habits have not been impacted by the state of the economy for example?

OK so my dodgy maths above reckoned on 200k units (450k this year) which might sound a lot but it sooo depends if we are talking high end performance cars or eco boxes.

One thought on the PDK etc thing - I seem to remember at a meeting someone from one of the gearbox mob saying it was quite a bit cheaper to fit a single clutch semi auto than a manual, though we charged more for it. I may have been dreaming and no idea on dual, but it might be that the costs of developing single type PDK style boxes are a lot less than doing a manual and an auto, would certainly be cheaper than a full auto and likely no more than manual while offering an apparent "improvement" to the customer.

He's not missing your point. We use percentages for a reason.

I lived in the US for years and they don't love manuals. The vast majority of Americans can't drive a manual. There is a small and increasing hardcore of people who do like them, but it's still a drop in the ocean compared to the market size. Americans buy around 16m new cars per year so 4% is about 640,000. Seems like a lot, but in US numbers, it barely registers.

As my mate used to say when I lived in LA - "What's the best security device you can have on car here? A clutch."

Having said all that, I think it's great that the numbers are rising and there are many real enthusiasts over there who are now seeing a 'stick-shift' as a badge of commitment to petrolhead, err, ness!