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thewheelman
2,194 posts
42 months
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snuffy said: thewheelman said: doogz said: thewheelman said: I'm not sure you could call 3.9% of car sales in the U.S. as "very few cars" & that figure has already more than doubled for this year. Compared to 96.1, 3.9 is very few. Compared to 93, 7 is still a few. How pedantic  You still don't get the concept that figure still represents in the hundreds of thousands, or even possibly more, actual car sales. It's pedantic, it's true. That's not what pedantic means anyway. 4 out out every 100 cars is a small amount. Yes, it's hundreds of thousands as you say, but that's out of millions. So there are a large number of manual cars, but there are a much, much larger number of automatic cars. So it's a small number in the total. In fact, that's why we use percentages; expressing things in percentages are very handy for comparing on thing against the other !! Yes, I fully understand Maths thank you very much. I never questioned the fact more autos are sold, just stating that is still a hell of a lot of manual cars sold. Being American car sales stats, I wouldn't be surprised if this included truck sales, if so this figure is not that accurate. I remember reading several years ago that the Ford 150 truck is/was America's best selling car!? So I would be interested to know if this does infact include truck sales.
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300bhp/ton
26,483 posts
59 months
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Caulkhead said: Having said all that, I think it's great that the numbers are rising and there are many real enthusiasts over there who are now seeing a 'stick-shift' as a badge of commitment to petrolhead, err, ness!  Pretty much all American performance cars are available with a manual shift, sometimes exclusively so with no auto option. Unlike the UK/Europe where we seem to be getting more and more auto's or auto shifting manuals.
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Numeric
304 posts
20 months
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Caulkhead said: thewheelman said: You seem to miss the point every time. He's not missing your point. We use percentages for a reason. I lived in the US for years and they don't love manuals. The vast majority of Americans can't drive a manual. There is a small and increasing hardcore of people who do like them, but it's still a drop in the ocean compared to the market size. Americans buy around 16m new cars per year so 4% is about 640,000. Seems like a lot, but in US numbers, it barely registers. As my mate used to say when I lived in LA - "What's the best security device you can have on car here? A clutch." Having said all that, I think it's great that the numbers are rising and there are many real enthusiasts over there who are now seeing a 'stick-shift' as a badge of commitment to petrolhead, err, ness! Hi - no on the 16mil cars - they buy about 6.5m cars and the same in trucks/SUV which are separately categorised and I assume are not part of the 3%/7%.
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DonkeyApple
Original Poster
12,025 posts
38 months
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thewheelman said: Yes, I fully understand Maths thank you very much. I never questioned the fact more autos are sold, just stating that is still a hell of a lot of manual cars sold. Being American car sales stats, I wouldn't be surprised if this included truck sales, if so this figure is not that accurate.
I remember reading several years ago that the Ford 150 truck is/was America's best selling car!? So I would be interested to know if this does infact include truck sales. Although, it isn't a figure at all in the article we are discussing, it is a percentage of a set of figures we aren't told. As such the whole article is meaningless in what it is trying to convey and misleading.
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GroundEffect
7,205 posts
25 months
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thewheelman said: Are the English really that stupid to think that Americans don't buy manuals? Go on any American car related website, open your eyes! We don't sell many of our cars in the US with a manual option.
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Numeric
304 posts
20 months
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By the way - just jumped on the Honda US website and some Civic models seem to have manuals as the standard - and we arn't really talking sporty Civics here - I do think this might be an economy rather than performance issue in some areas?
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NinjaPower
2,321 posts
49 months
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A guy I know who works for Jaguar / Land Rover told me that within 10 years time you will only be able to by a manual car if manual is specifically an option on the 'extras list', otherwise everything will be auto as standard.
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proscriptus
35 posts
90 months
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Oakman said: Hasn't anybody mentioned the massive increase of future repair costs £££££ to these incredibly technical electro/mechanical systems ?
Not at all wishing to re stir that particular hornets nest......but as a manual MkIV Golf R32 owner I read with great interest/shock the regular technical enquiries re the DSG system as fitted to MKV R32's and other related VW/Audi group vehicles so equipped. The regular mention of Mechatronic failures and gear/clutch non selections etc, etc, up to full warranty replacements of complete gearbox & mechatronic assemblies for the fortunate few who had extended warranties - frightening ! I didn't let my father buy a DSG Golf last year for just that reason.
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Mitch2.0
181 posts
56 months
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thewheelman - Are you a pi55ed off yank, whos come over here because you were jealous of our speed limits and wanted a to drive in lanes that weren't so wide as to sap the speed even further, or are you just mental?
To say America loves manuals is a bit foolish given how few they drive relative to other countries. The figures are right in front of you.
Saying 'not all Americans hate manuals' would be more accurate.
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Oakman
51 posts
27 months
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proscriptus said: Oakman said: Hasn't anybody mentioned the massive increase of future repair costs £££££ to these incredibly technical electro/mechanical systems ?
Not at all wishing to re stir that particular hornets nest......but as a manual MkIV Golf R32 owner I read with great interest/shock the regular technical enquiries re the DSG system as fitted to MKV R32's and other related VW/Audi group vehicles so equipped. The regular mention of Mechatronic failures and gear/clutch non selections etc, etc, up to full warranty replacements of complete gearbox & mechatronic assemblies for the fortunate few who had extended warranties - frightening ! I didn't let my father buy a DSG Golf last year for just that reason. Thats why I posted these thoughts, not everybody is on a replacement new car every 3 years, so there are real world concerns over longevity of some systems.
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Munich
928 posts
65 months
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12,778,868 vehicle were sold in the US last year. 3.9% of that would mean 498,376 vehicles were sold with MT.
This year, 7,272,571 vehicles have been sold YTD (Jan - June). 7% of that would mean 509,080 vehicles were sold with MT.
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don logan
817 posts
91 months
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OHHHHHHHH C**P, you don`t think the Americans are classing DSGs etc as "manuals" do you?
Like when you see an SMG E46 M3 for sale and it says "manual"
(NO arguments about whether they are or are not robotised manuals please because that`s not the point!)
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Numeric
304 posts
20 months
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Munich said: 12,778,868 vehicle were sold in the US last year. 3.9% of that would mean 498,376 vehicles were sold with MT.
This year, 7,272,571 vehicles have been sold YTD (Jan - June). 7% of that would mean 509,080 vehicles were sold with MT. Once again the grizzly light truck rears it's head - F150s in your volumes me thinks!
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B Huey
4,881 posts
68 months
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thewheelman said: Are the English really that stupid to think that Americans don't buy manuals? Go on any American car related website, open your eyes! Calm down, they don't sell many. I just searched all cars on Autotrader USA and divided the search between manual and auto. 1.8 million autos versus 120,000 manuals. So auto outsells manual 15 to 1.
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thewheelman
2,194 posts
42 months
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Jamil16
2 posts
76 months
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DonkeyApple
Original Poster
12,025 posts
38 months
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thewheelman said: It's America. If the demand was there then the supply would be there. Demand has been falling constantly for 20 years, not supply driven. One can wonder if fatties don't like manuals as they can't find the stick under their folds and their legs chaffe when changing gears?
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300bhp/ton
26,483 posts
59 months
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thewheelman said: I think this is probably quite valid. At the end of the day you can only buy what's available.
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Twincam16
27,230 posts
127 months
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I wonder if any of it's down to this guy:  as I can't imagine him driving the way he does in an automatic. The way he's tapped into the whole extreme-sports crowd may well mean more younger American drivers are learning on manuals rather than autos, perhaps?
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jas xjr
7,424 posts
108 months
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my yank cousin always buys stick shift because it means nobody else can drive his car especially his wife
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