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WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
blearyeyedboy said:
Hmm... on reflection... wouldn't unequal length driveshafts have more to do with torque steer than an LSD?
Nope, because other factors come into play, such as how well the suspension engineers have designed the whole system.
Then tuned it to all the variations of roads it will encounter. Not easy.
Stop dithering and go try your choice with and without, make your own mind up.
I still recommend AWD, with a turbo. smile


blearyeyedboy

Original Poster:

2,569 posts

48 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
WhoseGeneration said:
Stop dithering and go try your choice with and without, make your own mind up.
3-4 hours of internet homework about something you don't know can save weeks of footwork. If that's dithering, I'll dither away. wink

WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
blearyeyedboy said:
WhoseGeneration said:
Stop dithering and go try your choice with and without, make your own mind up.
3-4 hours of internet homework about something you don't know can save weeks of footwork. If that's dithering, I'll dither away. wink
You specified one particular vehicle, which was why I said "your choice with and without".
It's you who will have to drive it, not one of us contributing.
I'm not being antagonistic here, just pointing out a truth.


Edited by WhoseGeneration on Friday 3rd August 02:14

blearyeyedboy

Original Poster:

2,569 posts

48 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
WhoseGeneration said:
I'm not being antagonistic here, just pointing out a truth.
Ditto, WG- my replies are really meant in a friendly way. smile
The reply was meant as friendly banter, not selective quoting- sorry if it came across any other way. The advice is really appreciated.

WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
blearyeyedboy said:
WhoseGeneration said:
I'm not being antagonistic here, just pointing out a truth.
Ditto, WG- my replies are really meant in a friendly way. smile
The reply was meant as friendly banter, not selective quoting- sorry if it came across any other way. The advice is really appreciated.
Sorry, I edited to remove "selective quoting", feeling that was a wrong emphasis on my part.
No problem, I understand your desire to get as much information as possible. You'll have to, sometime, move from theory to practice though.


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blearyeyedboy

Original Poster:

2,569 posts

48 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
No problem WG. smile

beer

Right, bed time! I'll put into practice soon.

An LSD sounds good... but for the FN2, I'll be right at the top end of my budget. I'll think about possible alternatives- 4WD would intrigue me but the fuel bill for an Evo would be OTT. Some Subarus... maybe... I'll have to give it thought.

underphil

161 posts

79 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
Worth it if you want to drive on.a track, but on the roads you only notice the difference when driving like an absolute loon!

doogz

18,670 posts

56 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
underphil said:
Worth it if you want to drive on.a track, but on the roads you only notice the difference when driving like an absolute loon!
I was going to type out a lengthy reply, but it kinda simmers down to this.

If you're going to play, hard, on some corners, they're magic, they help immensely with understeer, and the ability to get on the power so much earlier, on the road, they're not so relevant. Nice to have, but I tend not to find myself driving that hard on the road these days.

NiceCupOfTea

21,946 posts

120 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
Not sure I ever really noticed the TorSen LSD on my Eunos after driving the open differed UK Mk.1 and 2 of my dad... paperbag

300bhp/ton

26,483 posts

59 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
underphil said:
Worth it if you want to drive on.a track, but on the roads you only notice the difference when driving like an absolute loon!
My experience says they are very noticeable from the off. ok, you might not be gaining anything at low speeds. But bumpy or wet roads and you really don't need to go that quick to see a massive difference in ability.

DanDC5

6,921 posts

36 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
Buy a non LSD FN2 and then fit a Quaife ATB LSD. It'll work out cheaper than buying a late one with the LSD already fitted.

Matt_N

4,632 posts

71 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
I fitted a torsen LSD to my Colt track car after about a year of trackdays without one, it absolutely transformed the car, taking seconds off my lap times.

I've also got an Accord Type R which has a torsen LSD as standard and it amazes me at how much traction it has coming out of corners, it will actually tighten your line when you get on the gas.

If you're looking at an FN2 CTR, my suggestion would be to spend the same on a DC5 Integra Type R, or spend a bit less on a DC2, I've not driven either but apart from the FD2 CTR they are reported to be amongst the best handling FWD'ers out there.

Or get an EP3 CTR with a diff already fitted or fit one, the FN2 went to a rear beam suspension system, whereas the EP3 is fully independant and meant to handle much better.

blearyeyedboy

Original Poster:

2,569 posts

48 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
DanDC5 said:
Buy a non LSD FN2 and then fit a Quaife ATB LSD. It'll work out cheaper than buying a late one with the LSD already fitted.
Or fit a Quaife to my Octavia? evil

Does anyone have experience of a Quaife in an FN2, or of trying to insure it? I'm wondering if insurance costs over 2-3 years might cancel out any gains in doing what you suggest. (Clearly it's going to vary but I'd be interested to know what's happened to other people.)

Bezza1969

624 posts

17 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
A different view point here, the OP says he wont be going on a track and wont be maxing it to the limits. Therefore IMO, the diff is probably not that important. The main problem as I understand it with FN2s is that they are very stiff and bounce a bit on very bumpy roads, something that the diff wont help with. Obviously improved traction with a diff is nice in the wet, but it depends on whether the OP is intending to really push his car. If he isnt, then why bother with the diff version. Early Fn2s are quite cheap now, I fancy one myself actually!

S3000

459 posts

28 months

[news] 
Friday 3rd August 2012 quote quote all
i went uphill through a tight corner and could feel the right tyre screaming for grip...
im sure with a LSD the output would be different.

blearyeyedboy

Original Poster:

2,569 posts

48 months

[news] 
Saturday 4th August 2012 quote quote all
Bezza1969 said:
A different view point here, the OP says he wont be going on a track and wont be maxing it to the limits. Therefore IMO, the diff is probably not that important. The main problem as I understand it with FN2s is that they are very stiff and bounce a bit on very bumpy roads, something that the diff wont help with. Obviously improved traction with a diff is nice in the wet, but it depends on whether the OP is intending to really push his car. If he isnt, then why bother with the diff version. Early Fn2s are quite cheap now, I fancy one myself actually!
Thanks. The FN2 is just an example really- though I'm increasingly tempted given how cheap they're getting! smile - I thought there was surprisingly little info on how LSD's make FWD cars behave on the road as opposed to on the track, and I thought I'd get people talking about it.

I was a bit inspired by that article about Evo magazine preferring the Megane 265 to the Subaru BRZ, particularly about how the diff helped to move the car around a corner. I wondered how much it matters in other FWD cars (or how much is Reanaultsport's genius in setting up the car in other ways.

blearyeyedboy

Original Poster:

2,569 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
Bumping my own thread here.

If a FWD car with a LSD drives down a bumpy road and has a wheel off the ground for a split second, does that mean a car without one is likely to make better progress? Other factors remaining equal.

GroundEffect

7,199 posts

25 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
blearyeyedboy said:
Bumping my own thread here.

If a FWD car with a LSD drives down a bumpy road and has a wheel off the ground for a split second, does that mean a car without one is likely to make better progress? Other factors remaining equal.
No, one without an LSD will make worse progress. The wheel off the ground (no LSD) would get all the torque...and you wouldn't be accelerating.

Go drive an Integra Type R DC2 and see why an LSD is CRUCIAL in a higher-powered FWD car. It's one of the reasons the DC2 is the best FWD car ever (no arguments please).

doogz

18,670 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
GroundEffect said:
No, one without an LSD will make worse progress. The wheel off the ground (no LSD) would get all the torque...and you wouldn't be accelerating.

Go drive an Integra Type R DC2 and see why an LSD is CRUCIAL in a higher-powered FWD car. It's one of the reasons the DC2 is the best FWD car ever (no arguments please).
No arguments about it being the best. I don't agree, but I won't argue.

But the DC2 has a helical type diff yes?

In which case, when one front wheel is off the ground, the other will be providing no drive either. 3 times nothing is nothing.(Not sure of the ratio in the DC2, guessing it's 3:1)

And with an open diff, both wheels get the same amount of torque, all the time.

blearyeyedboy

Original Poster:

2,569 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 31st October 2012 quote quote all
doogz said:
No arguments about it being the best. I don't agree, but I won't argue.

But the DC2 has a helical type diff yes?

In which case, when one front wheel is off the ground, the other will be providing no drive either. 3 times nothing is nothing.(Not sure of the ratio in the DC2, guessing it's 3:1)

And with an open diff, both wheels get the same amount of torque, all the time.
That's what I was wondering (about helical diffs anyway). Over poorly broken up surfaces where there are times a stiffly sprung car doesn't have good contact with the road, could a non-LSD car be more controlled and more fun? Fun's clearly subjective but I hope you understand what I mean...
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