RE: PH buying guide: Maserati 3200 GT
Discussion
I had a 4200.... In hindsight it is the best car Ive owned to date!
Never mind all this boring running cost and reliability stuff though, Im surprised no one has mentioned the 3200's favourite trick of trying to kill you everytime the road is wet. Theres a fine line in a 4200 between making progress and facing the wrong way in the wet.
The 3200 with its turbo lag is in another league. Call me a big girl but Id be frightened about taking one out at the merest hint of a shower!
Never mind all this boring running cost and reliability stuff though, Im surprised no one has mentioned the 3200's favourite trick of trying to kill you everytime the road is wet. Theres a fine line in a 4200 between making progress and facing the wrong way in the wet.
The 3200 with its turbo lag is in another league. Call me a big girl but Id be frightened about taking one out at the merest hint of a shower!
TheLastPost said:
I've been watching these for some time now: gorgeous car, but the big thing that's scaring me off (even more than the tales of big maintenance bills) is the fact that they simply don't seem to sell at all.
I'm seeing some of the same cars for sale for literally months, if not years, on end.
Unrealistic values?
Give some examples?I'm seeing some of the same cars for sale for literally months, if not years, on end.
Unrealistic values?
When I was looking, there were some that were over priced, some that didn't have the right maintenance and some that were just poor
. Good cars sell for good money.I would agree that the 3200 are harder to shift though, I delved so far into the history of many it was untrue. Good upskill in knowing about the cars foibles though.
Edited by V6Alfisti on Friday 3rd August 21:58
http://www.track-days.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Transmission problems and what to look for have also appeared in a buyers guide that appeared in print.
It's not leaping out at me from this article.
Are there transmission problems? Or the shouting down in the above thread shows there aren't?
Transmission problems and what to look for have also appeared in a buyers guide that appeared in print.
It's not leaping out at me from this article.
Are there transmission problems? Or the shouting down in the above thread shows there aren't?
carinaman said:
http://www.track-days.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Transmission problems and what to look for have also appeared in a buyers guide that appeared in print.
It's not leaping out at me from this article.
Are there transmission problems? Or the shouting down in the above thread shows there aren't?
Honestly never heard of any transmission problems with the manual 3200/4200, however many say they found the change manual too "heavy" but coming from a TVR, I found it normal on a test drive (and lighter than the TVR but then so is driving a tank!) but not like a modern day mass produced car.Transmission problems and what to look for have also appeared in a buyers guide that appeared in print.
It's not leaping out at me from this article.
Are there transmission problems? Or the shouting down in the above thread shows there aren't?
The thread above refers to a much misunderstood problem with some 3200's which has manifested in every effected car by now.
The issue stems from engines built with the crankshaft thrust washers (those which control endfloat) inserted incorrectly, so the wrong side was facing the crank. Over time the bearings wore prematurely, introducing endfloat to the whole crank assembly, with issues then arising with the counterweights hitting the block and the obvious contamination which follows. Result was destroyed engines.
The problem was exacerbated by cars with a manual transmission. The 3200 manual has a very robust pull type clutch. like that fitted to trucks, more than cars. Hydraulics take care of the operation and keep the pedal light, but the reality is the crank gets pulled hard towards the gearbox when the clutch is depressed. This chewed up the trust bearings even quicker.
All cars except those with unusually low mileage, have now done sufficient miles to witness this problem, hence it wont occur. It is also limited to a small number of cars.
You can easily check for crank endfloat when the car is on a ramp, using a lever behind the pulley/flywheel and a dial gauge.
It is sad that these cars are shrouded by a poor reputation, when this is not really the case. It is often the ignorance of those who have not even owned one.
The issue stems from engines built with the crankshaft thrust washers (those which control endfloat) inserted incorrectly, so the wrong side was facing the crank. Over time the bearings wore prematurely, introducing endfloat to the whole crank assembly, with issues then arising with the counterweights hitting the block and the obvious contamination which follows. Result was destroyed engines.
The problem was exacerbated by cars with a manual transmission. The 3200 manual has a very robust pull type clutch. like that fitted to trucks, more than cars. Hydraulics take care of the operation and keep the pedal light, but the reality is the crank gets pulled hard towards the gearbox when the clutch is depressed. This chewed up the trust bearings even quicker.
All cars except those with unusually low mileage, have now done sufficient miles to witness this problem, hence it wont occur. It is also limited to a small number of cars.
You can easily check for crank endfloat when the car is on a ramp, using a lever behind the pulley/flywheel and a dial gauge.
It is sad that these cars are shrouded by a poor reputation, when this is not really the case. It is often the ignorance of those who have not even owned one.
Just an observation, but when I was looking for mine (albeit a GS), I was surprised how ling some cars stuck around for - some were months and as above, some were years. I could link to one that has been for sale for 2+ years, with little in the way of a reduction
But then, good ones with good history and in good colour combinations seem to sell well.
But then, good ones with good history and in good colour combinations seem to sell well.
Simple. Pre 2001 and they are Green.
Never buy a pre 2001 spec model, (often referred to as a Series 2) and identifiable as not having the pair of silver secondary air valves at the front of the engine (in front of the upper cam belt pullies).
Pre 2001 cars do not incorporate the engineering changes which address many of the reliability issues.
Never buy a pre 2001 spec model, (often referred to as a Series 2) and identifiable as not having the pair of silver secondary air valves at the front of the engine (in front of the upper cam belt pullies).
Pre 2001 cars do not incorporate the engineering changes which address many of the reliability issues.
EFA said:
A £12k UK car now will be £17k in 3 years. All the good ones are also going to Australia so some reason.
I wouldn't be so sure, this kind of stuff get's bandied about all the time with classic cars and rarely turns out trueThey said the DB7 was a bona fide classic, the car that saved Aston and values must have bottomed out when they were around 25k, yet values continue to drop
The problem is the value of later much better cars like the V8 Vantage and DB9 are also falling, thus putting a lot of pressure on the DB7 values, i dont expect a upsurge in DB7 values anytime soon
This i suspect is what is happening to the 3200GT, prices of the 4200 are hot on the heels of the 3200GT, the Granturismo has also fallen a lot now and continues to do so
The only classic cars i have seen appreciate are those that were produced on very ltd numbers, or have some historical significance or motorsport history, the fact is premium makers like Aston, Ferrari et al, have pumped out far more Supercars, Super GT's in the past 15 years than ever before, so there's lot more old metal out there wanting your attention
peter450 said:
EFA said:
A £12k UK car now will be £17k in 3 years. All the good ones are also going to Australia so some reason.
I wouldn't be so sure, this kind of stuff get's bandied about all the time with classic cars and rarely turns out trueThey said the DB7 was a bona fide classic, the car that saved Aston and values must have bottomed out when they were around 25k, yet values continue to drop
The problem is the value of later much better cars like the V8 Vantage and DB9 are also falling, thus putting a lot of pressure on the DB7 values, i dont expect a upsurge in DB7 values anytime soon
This i suspect is what is happening to the 3200GT, prices of the 4200 are hot on the heels of the 3200GT, the Granturismo has also fallen a lot now and continues to do so
The only classic cars i have seen appreciate are those that were produced on very ltd numbers, or have some historical significance or motorsport history, the fact is premium makers like Aston, Ferrari et al, have pumped out far more Supercars, Super GT's in the past 15 years than ever before, so there's lot more old metal out there wanting your attention
Correct, most of them are ruled out.
The 4200 lost three important aspects of ownership that the 3200 has - the boomerang lights, the beautifully sculpted bonnet vents, the effortless torque that only a twin turbo can provide. Most of them also have a flappy paddle gearbox which is the source of much expense, especially if you have a driveway you have to reverse up.
I wonder where the car featuring in this article is today? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
As you can see, ignorance is clearly behind all the bad stories. Who on earth would buy a car like this without having it checked out first, or at least checking obvious things like tyres and brakes?
The 4200 lost three important aspects of ownership that the 3200 has - the boomerang lights, the beautifully sculpted bonnet vents, the effortless torque that only a twin turbo can provide. Most of them also have a flappy paddle gearbox which is the source of much expense, especially if you have a driveway you have to reverse up.
I wonder where the car featuring in this article is today? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
As you can see, ignorance is clearly behind all the bad stories. Who on earth would buy a car like this without having it checked out first, or at least checking obvious things like tyres and brakes?
I desperately wanted one of these when I had around £12k plus an MX-5 to trade in. I was warned (by the good folk of PH) that if I couldn't spare the purchase price every two years to maintain it, it would ruin me. I was heartbroken.
I looked at similar sorts of cars - the XKR falling very close to a purchase, if only it had a manual 'box (at least, I never saw one with a manual...) and a ratty high miler 996 base model tippy was just in range, but again, cost of ownership...
In the end I bought an Octavia vRS and an Elise. Figured it was better to have a fast-ish daily commuter that wouldn't ruin me in petrol and servicing, and a fun little convertible for the weekends.
Plan worked well as now I commute on a bicycle, so the Skoda is gone and I still have the Lotus for weekends.
I do sometimes wonder how it would have worked out if I'd just bought the Maserati though. Hopefully one day I'll find out...
I looked at similar sorts of cars - the XKR falling very close to a purchase, if only it had a manual 'box (at least, I never saw one with a manual...) and a ratty high miler 996 base model tippy was just in range, but again, cost of ownership...
In the end I bought an Octavia vRS and an Elise. Figured it was better to have a fast-ish daily commuter that wouldn't ruin me in petrol and servicing, and a fun little convertible for the weekends.
Plan worked well as now I commute on a bicycle, so the Skoda is gone and I still have the Lotus for weekends.
I do sometimes wonder how it would have worked out if I'd just bought the Maserati though. Hopefully one day I'll find out...
V6Alfisti said:
Honestly never heard of any transmission problems with the manual 3200/4200, however many say they found the change manual too "heavy" but coming from a TVR, I found it normal on a test drive (and lighter than the TVR but then so is driving a tank!) but not like a modern day mass produced car.
There have been end float problems with the manual cars that have been well documented on the forums. Also they eat clutches (just like any performance cars). The auto is not as bad as people make out.antonyb said:
i had a lovely black 3200 for a while... whilst i absolutely loved the car in terms of performance and style/design I have to say the constant fear of servicing and repairs eventually got the better of me and I let it go. the service book was full of work over £3000 per visit and personally I spent over £1000 in a year on extra work over servicing. At that was a good one (told that on numerous occasions by experts working on it).
bottom line: get one, but only if you have deep enough pockets that you dont have to care (within reason) what it costs to keep alive.
Fair points. £1000 in a year, on a £60k car, is nothing though. bottom line: get one, but only if you have deep enough pockets that you dont have to care (within reason) what it costs to keep alive.
I've spent considerably more than that on Fiats etc, let alone a Maserati.
Although the big bills put me off too. The idea of spending £10k on a car if I put serious miles on it doesn't really appeal!
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