Return of the hot rod?

[v8will]

Streetrod, what's your thoughts on the Factory Five '33 Rod kit? or can you suggest an alternative closer to home?

I love hot rods but the time/skills/expense needed to build a period steel body car make the prospect of something mostly in component form much more accessible (as well as something that would look 'cool as fook')

I'm thinking from a £20,000 ish project over maybe 4-5 years type thing.

[aeropilot]

Streetrod said:

I have no intention of chopping it, hoping to build a 60's style car. I have offered an early Hemi in good nick for decent money which will be going in. Still need to collect a load of parts though

That late 50's/60's style black, fenderless '34 Coupe (or is it a 5w?) with the early Hemi that was finished last year is really nice.
Had a good squint around it at the Hayride a few weeks ago.

[Cotty]

300bhp/ton said:

While on the topic of building. I know where you can get bodies, I know engine and transmission I'd opt for. But what about chassis rails?

I'm sadly not well enough off to build/buy one at present. But I can still dream...

So on that basis if you wanted to build a '32 can you buy pre-fabbed chassis rails and suspension in the UK at all, or is it all custom work?

One of the things that I read about is if you buy bits from here and bits from there you will have a nightmare making everything fit. chassie from one company and a body from another, you had two hope in hell getting them to fit together. It all came down to what they took the moulds from.

Things may be different these days

[HorneyMX5]

My mates scratch built ford Pop pick up. Bits include a full custom made chassis, Rover 8 lump, Sherpa rear axle, Triumph herald front set up, Bits of VW camper panles, bits of classic mini panels, roof chop, slight channel, the list goes on. Recently passed Commercial IVA so will be a Q plate as he wanted it to be fully legit. MOT soon hopefully and it'll be on the road.

Nick

[aeropilot]

300bhp/ton said:

Ari said:

Let's not forget perhaps the most famous hot rod of them all!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQw9tVWkf-s

That's lovely. Although for me this is the most famous:

Yup, it’s definitely the Milner Deuce the most famous IMHO (certainly not the ZZ Top thing)

Maybe with the original ‘Little Deuce Coupe’ from the Beach Boys album cover a close second.



It was watching Graffiti 35+ years ago (and hearing the Beach Boys album) that sparked my interest in Hot Rods, and lead me on to discover some of the REALLY famous Hot Rods such as…..

The Vic Edelbrock roadster



The Ray Brown roadster



The Pierson Bros coupe



The Doane Spencer roadster



The Bob McGee/Dick Scritchfield roadster



The ‘Doyle Gammell’coupe



And the Tom McMullen roadster

[Hugo a Gogo]

aeropilot said:

The Doane Spencer roadster

that does it for me, the duval windshield on a classic hiboy deuce

[aeropilot]

Hugo a Gogo said:

aeropilot said:

The Doane Spencer roadster

that does it for me, the duval windshield on a classic hiboy deuce

And this was the very first roadster to have one fitted, one of the reasons it's so famous.

[Streetrod]

v8will said:

Streetrod, what's your thoughts on the Factory Five '33 Rod kit? or can you suggest an alternative closer to home?

I love hot rods but the time/skills/expense needed to build a period steel body car make the prospect of something mostly in component form much more accessible (as well as something that would look 'cool as fook')

I'm thinking from a £20,000 ish project over maybe 4-5 years type thing.

The Factory Five 33 kit is a good option for someone not confident in their fabrication skills, as it is effectively a kit car. But it has a lot of positives in its favour. It is really a tube framed sports car clothed in a 33 style body, so it will handle a lot better than most traditional rods.

The Hotrod market is now so mature you can build a bolt together car that will be very good from just a few clicks on the internet, but this will be expensive. The best option I would say is to buy an unfinished project, but make sure you are fully aware of what you are getting, if not take someone along with a good engineering background.

Again being a member of a club with provide you with no end of good advice and give you the nod on a decent projects coming up for sale. Most clubs do not requre you to own a car to join. The thing you will find with rodders in general is that we are always interested in getting involved in other members projects, with a helping hand never being far away.

One of the best ways to meet other rodders is too break down at the side of the road either going too or coming from a meet. I guarantee within five mins you will have an orderly queue of hotrods parked behind yours and a crowd of knowledgeable chaps under and over your car getting it back on the road

Edited by Streetrod on Friday 17th August 10:18

[300bhp/ton]

Crafty_ said:

So there are a number of ways for the frame..
Cheapest is buy some box section steel and build it, won't look as nice as a "proper" frame though.
You could get one of the aforementioned builders to put a chassis together for you.
You could buy the outer rails from the states and bring them in, then add / make you own crossmembers.
Or buy an entire frame from the states, anything from a bare frame to a roller.

As far as the suspension goes what do you want ?
Main choices are going to be: I beam, tube, independent for the front
For the rear ladder bars ? buggy spring ? parallel 4 bar ? triangulated 4 bar ? or again independent ?

Once those choices are made you then need to pick a given type, for example for an i beam front are you going to have a solid beam ? drilled ? dropped 2" ? 4" ? radius rods or hairpins ?

You need to pick all this stuff carefully, independent stuff is a no-no for a trad car for example. You need to pick the right bits for the style of car you want, try and be consistent too, so you carry the style all through the car. For example, if you are going to run fenderless a box section chassis will be on show and look a bit poo, but if you were going to run fendered or channel the body it wont really be seen, so who cares? won't affect the look of the car.

You could adapt stuff from a road car. I've seen a '32 built on a FX4 taxi chassis! You could maybe use lotus 7 type suspension for the front..

There are UK retailers, builders and fabricators that can help you out over here, or you buy stuff in the states and get it shipped, that might sound expensive but there are some people who run shipping services - the one I use I ship to New Jersey, the guy sticks it all in a container which ends up in Luton and I pick up from there. They'll ship anything and the guy this end is a long time rodder so doesn't rip people off.

Thanks for the info.

I guess I've got two ideas thus far on what I'd want to create.

In short I want a Milner looking "piss yella" 5 window '32 coupe. But I want it more modern in ability and spec.


I'm quite happy with a fibreglass body such as the Rodline ones or similar.

Engine I'd really be looking for an LS1 (or LS2). I know it's not a pretty engine, but it works and is light. Probably cammed but nothing too extreme, but should offer up 370hp+ with ease. I'd be keeping it EFI and maybe add a couple of shiny bits eventually to it.

Have it running through a manual gearbox, I think the TVR guys use a TKO500 5 speeder. This would be the preferred route over the T56 due to size and weight.

Rear suspension. Ideally IRS would be the way I'd like to go, but I don't know if anyone offers an "off the shelf setup" or if you could adapt another vehicles. Although you'd want a strong diff and axle in what ever you choose.

Alternative option would be a live axle. I've been pondering if a 4th Gen Camaro setup could be used (might be able to buy an entire donor vehicle from a salvage company and get the engine too). The 10 bolt GM axle is ok and most likely strong enough for my use. The suspension setup on it works well and isn't overly complex, gearbox mounted torque arm, lower control arms and the shocks. I'd have though you could just weld on the mounting points as required an to match the layout/dimension of the Camaro.

Front, again I think independent would be the way I'd want to go. Although I've not really though about this much more than that. Camaro uses double A arms, so I don't know if that could be utilised.

[Roo]

300bhp/ton said:

Have to say the more I've read about them the more the appeal. Think I'd have to ditch the front "tash" style bumpers though. That said, I suspect you could buy/build quite a nice rod for £20k though.

I guess a Prowler could be a daily though.

You can buy a kit that moves the sidelights into the area where the front "tash" is mounted.

The original front bumper components sell for a lot of money.

[Streetrod]

Mate, you say you want a Milner style coupe but then spec a car that could not be further from that if you tried.

If you are going fenderless then the suspension must have a high aesthetic value. Using a donor car like a Camaro is not going to give you this. There is a good reason why drop tube and beam axels are popular; they look ace, if not providing the last word in handling.

If you want a more modern set up then build a more contempory styled hotrod. Various rod shops can build you a very neat independent set up or you can buy a readymade setup from various sources

Edited by Streetrod on Friday 17th August 11:04

[300bhp/ton]

Roo said:

You can buy a kit that moves the sidelights into the area where the front "tash" is mounted.

The original front bumper components sell for a lot of money.

Love that colour. Yeah I was reading a Motor Trend review of the Hennessey version which moved the indicators.

If you could buy one for £8-12k I think I'd be visiting the bank. But for £20k I think I'd rather look at building a proper rod.

[aeropilot]

300bhp/ton said:

In short I want a Milner looking "piss yella" 5 window '32 coupe. But I want it more modern in ability and spec.

Other than choosing a 5w plastic body and painting it yellow, that’s where an similarity to the Milner look will end if choosing modern running gear – as the trad look won’t suit modern running gear. Not a problem just don’t try and get close to making it look the a Milner look.

300bhp/ton said:

Engine I'd really be looking for an LS1 (or LS2). I know it's not a pretty engine, but it works and is light. Probably cammed but nothing too extreme, but should offer up 370hp+ with ease. I'd be keeping it EFI and maybe add a couple of shiny bits eventually to it.

Have it running through a manual gearbox, I think the TVR guys use a TKO500 5 speeder. This would be the preferred route over the T56 due to size and weight.

Crate LS motor and 5 speedTKO or whatever box isn’t a problem, ship in or buy from a UK supplier a crate motor and box off the shelf. By far the cheapest and simplest route. Plenty of options here.

300bhp/ton said:

Rear suspension. Ideally IRS would be the way I'd like to go, but I don't know if anyone offers an "off the shelf setup" or if you could adapt another vehicles. Although you'd want a strong diff and axle in what ever you choose.

Alternative option would be a live axle. I've been pondering if a 4th Gen Camaro setup could be used (might be able to buy an entire donor vehicle from a salvage company and get the engine too). The 10 bolt GM axle is ok and most likely strong enough for my use. The suspension setup on it works well and isn't overly complex, gearbox mounted torque arm, lower control arms and the shocks. I'd have though you could just weld on the mounting points as required an to match the layout/dimension of the Camaro.

Front, again I think independent would be the way I'd want to go. Although I've not really though about this much more than that. Camaro uses double A arms, so I don't know if that could be utilised.

You're making life too complicated by trying to re-invent the wheel here. Make your choice between live or IRS and then go from there.
If going live take the easy option and go Ford 9” inch rear – as there is so much more off the shelf kits and parts for this set-up as it’s almost the defacto option for a live rear end for a 32.
IRS – again no problems – there’s a huge number of complete IRS kit suppliers out there to choose from.
Again, for the front, forget the Camaro option and go the default option of the Mustang II based stet-up packages available – again huge range of suppliers to choose from for specific parts of complete kits.
To be honest I’d buy a complete rolling chassis in IRS or IRSfront/live rear depending on what route you choose, from one of the many specialists such as TCI or any number of others in the USA - plenty of suppliers to choose from.
TCI website here
http://www.totalcostinvolved.com/classic_chassis_s...

[300bhp/ton]

Streetrod said:

Mate, you say you want a Milner style coupe but then spec a car that could not be further from that if you tried.

If you are going fenderless then the suspension must have a high aesthetic value. Using a donor car like a Camaro is not going to give you this. There is a good reason why drop tube and beam axels are popular; they look ace, if not providing the last word in handling.

If you want a more modern set up then build a more contempory styled hotrod. Various rod shops can build you a very neat independent set up or you can buy a readymade setup from various sources

Edited by Streetrod on Friday 17th August 11:04

Surely building it how I want it would be the entire point behind hot rodding though, rather than building something just to be accepted by other people who I likely don't know and wouldn't actually care what they thought.

I want the look and style of a Milner coupe, but I'd much prefer/want it to go like a more modern car, in terms of power, brakes and cornering ability.

[Streetrod]

300bhp/ton said:

Streetrod said:

Mate, you say you want a Milner style coupe but then spec a car that could not be further from that if you tried.

If you are going fenderless then the suspension must have a high aesthetic value. Using a donor car like a Camaro is not going to give you this. There is a good reason why drop tube and beam axels are popular; they look ace, if not providing the last word in handling.

If you want a more modern set up then build a more contempory styled hotrod. Various rod shops can build you a very neat independent set up or you can buy a readymade setup from various sources

Edited by Streetrod on Friday 17th August 11:04

Surely building it how I want it would be the entire point behind hot rodding though, rather than building something just to be accepted by other people who I likely don't know and wouldn't actually care what they thought.

I want the look and style of a Milner coupe, but I'd much prefer/want it to go like a more modern car, in terms of power, brakes and cornering ability.

But my point is you cant build a Milner Styled car with modern running gear, by definition it wont be a Milner styled car. Using the suspension and engine set up you suggest will produce a very different look, the only thing likely to be similar will be the body style, can you not see that???

[Trommel]

Streetrod said:

can you not see that???

Are you new here?

[300bhp/ton]

@ aeropilot

Thanks for the info and link. I didn't realise you could get an IRS '32 chassis. That would by far be the easiest and most sensible route.

Yeah with regards to the Milner coupe, visually I'd want it similar. But very different under the body. In my view it'd be the best of both.

I'd want fenders, and I'd probably run a removable hood/bonnet. That way you could park it up more safely, yet still take it off if you wanted too. As a new build I don't see how I'd not need an IVA, so CATS and an actual exhaust would be needed.

I don't see how you could actually build a proper looking Milner coupe unless you had some sort of donor that you could avoid an IVA with.

[Hugo a Gogo]

'Milner style' would have the cut-down grill, so you couldn't fit a bonnet/hood either

go out and buy a few american hot-rod mags (but not really 'Hot Rod Magazine' because that's more biased to later cars, ironically enough after all the discussion!)
and just look at all the ads, loads of off the shelf stuff available

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Friday 17th August 11:24

[300bhp/ton]

Streetrod said:

But my point is you cant build a Milner Styled car with modern running gear, by definition it wont be a Milner styled car. Using the suspension and engine set up you suggest will produce a very different look, the only thing likely to be similar will be the body style, can you not see that???

And if that's all I want?

TBH I don't really understand what your issue is. Surely you would build/buy a rod how you want it, not how someone tells you it has to be?

Personally I'm not keen on huge alloys, so would run more 'period' fatter tyres and smaller rims. I think the overall shape of the car could be achieved, so the only really differences would be if you crawled under and maybe some of the visible front suspension. But to most people they'd not know anyhow.

I know the engine looks different, but I could quite happily live with that. And as said, on a new build I don't see how you'd get something with no silencers, cats or even and entire exhaust system though an IVA. So I suspect it's legally not possible to build a true Milner coupe for use in the UK even if you wanted too.

[300bhp/ton]

Hugo a Gogo said:

'Milner style' would have the cut-down grill, so you couldn't fit a bonnet/hood either

True, unless you cut the bonnet down too to fit

Hugo a Gogo said:

go out and buy a few american hot-rod mags (but not really 'Hot Rod Magazine' because that's more biased to later cars, ironically enough after all the discussion!)
and just look at all the ads, loads of off the shelf stuff available

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Friday 17th August 11:24

I've not bought any for years. What mags are still going in the UK these days or would I be better to get hold of some US mags?

Thanks.