RE: PH Fleet: BMW M5 (E28)
Discussion
fushion julz said:
A shell is just a part....If you own the identity and papers of both cars, then you can transfer the VIN fairly easily...BMW sell the panel with the stamped VIN as a repair section so this could be welded into the donor shell...
I'm willing to bet that if the job was done properly you wouldn't be able to tell which was the real one and which the rebuilt...
Although technically you are correct, it is not 100% original, but is there any guarantee that the damaged shell is the original one supplied from the factory?
Legally I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to swap the VIN from one shell to another shell that has already had a VIN assigned. I can't remember where the VIN is on an E28 other than on the driver's side inner wing.I'm willing to bet that if the job was done properly you wouldn't be able to tell which was the real one and which the rebuilt...
Although technically you are correct, it is not 100% original, but is there any guarantee that the damaged shell is the original one supplied from the factory?
AyBee said:
Fast Bug said:
Swapping all of the oily bits and vin over to another shell has a name. I can't quite remember it for the life of me...
Oh yeah it's called ringing and is illegal
Don't let facts get in the way of a good post...ringing involves stolen cars, which is why it's illegal!Oh yeah it's called ringing and is illegal
Throw the engine into an E30! That would be interesting!
Either way, always worth having a car like an old M5 with a spare / donor car for any necessary parts.
I bought an identical E34 M5 3.6 to mine as a donor car last year, as needed an exhaust and gearbox. Also swapped over any parts that were better than mine.
Unfortunately, the bodywork had seen better days, so couldn't salvage any of those parts.
Anyhow, still sold it to get my money back, and the exhaust / gearbox were almost free!
Either way, always worth having a car like an old M5 with a spare / donor car for any necessary parts.
I bought an identical E34 M5 3.6 to mine as a donor car last year, as needed an exhaust and gearbox. Also swapped over any parts that were better than mine.
Unfortunately, the bodywork had seen better days, so couldn't salvage any of those parts.
Anyhow, still sold it to get my money back, and the exhaust / gearbox were almost free!
pSyCoSiS said:
Throw the engine into an E30! That would be interesting!
Reminded me of this:"We have the four cylinder engine, which in its highest form is in the Formula One and Two cars. This is for the new M3. Then we have the six cylinder engine which we give the type number 88. You can already buy this in the M635, and the engine bay of the BMW 323 is just not big enough to take it. So the next obvious body for this engine was the Five Series" - Gerhard Richter, PC May 85
Reshell the car and dismiss all this the talk about using the M5 V.I.N.. Keep the V.I.N. panel & chassis number plate by all means just in case the next owner wanted proof all was above board and the M5 parts were available & fitted to the 'new' shell. Imo, welding in the original V.I.N. is wrong, no if's, but's or and's. Imagine someone buying the car at a later date and unaware that the car was originally a plain Jane E28 - I could imagine the threads on PH, everybody would be up in arms and very understandably too.
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Wednesday 15th August 18:00
Fast Bug said:
No, ringing involves swapping vin numbers over making a car out to be something it's not. It doesn't matter if the car is stolen or not, it's still ringing as you're passing a 518 off as an M5.
No...you're not passing it off as something it isn't...An E28 M5 was hand-assembled at either Preussenstrasse (early cars) or Garching using standard E28 bodyshells supplied from the regular line at Dingolfing...Until the car was complete, it wasn't an M5, just an E28...The M5 bits are not bodywork related at all...E28 M5s have no unique body panels or even added plastic (that was reserved for the M535i, although the bodykit could be ordered as an option on any model or deleted from the M535i, too).
Re-shelling isn't "ringing" as you aren't passing the car off as a clone, but are replacing a "part" (the shell/monocoque). It's akin to replacing the chassis on (say) a Lotus Elan and most of those have had the chassis replaced by now...
Have a look at ::this:: page - legally, the rebuilt car would have to go through an IVA and then get a Q plate.
I'm sure you could transfer the VIN across and no-one would know, but that's not the above-board way to do it.
However, if you reshell it as a race car, you don't need it road-registered anyway, so it really wouldn't matter.
I'm sure you could transfer the VIN across and no-one would know, but that's not the above-board way to do it.
However, if you reshell it as a race car, you don't need it road-registered anyway, so it really wouldn't matter.
fushion julz said:
Fast Bug said:
No, ringing involves swapping vin numbers over making a car out to be something it's not. It doesn't matter if the car is stolen or not, it's still ringing as you're passing a 518 off as an M5.
No...you're not passing it off as something it isn't...An E28 M5 was hand-assembled at either Preussenstrasse (early cars) or Garching using standard E28 bodyshells supplied from the regular line at Dingolfing...Until the car was complete, it wasn't an M5, just an E28...The M5 bits are not bodywork related at all...E28 M5s have no unique body panels or even added plastic (that was reserved for the M535i, although the bodykit could be ordered as an option on any model or deleted from the M535i, too).
Re-shelling isn't "ringing" as you aren't passing the car off as a clone, but are replacing a "part" (the shell/monocoque). It's akin to replacing the chassis on (say) a Lotus Elan and most of those have had the chassis replaced by now...
It's common for classics to be re-shelled, there's cars out there that have been re-shelled and re-engined multiple times. Ship of theseus, etc.
jet_noise said:
Wasn't this an Alpina B6 3.5?
regards,
Jet
As stated, this was a fettled M30. However, Hartge peformed the feat with the H35-24, so it is possible, but I personally think this particular car's engine should live on in an E28 somehowregards,
Jet
The reason for my previous post was to show how the E28 came into existence. The article from 1985 also mentions production capacity issues at the time, so if they felt that the M88 engine was suitable for the E30, then perhaps the M5 would never have been built in the first place. At the time of writing RHD M5 production was also deemed doubtful
Edited by Leins on Wednesday 15th August 11:21
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