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300bhp/ton
26,483 posts
59 months
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kambites said: the-photographer said: And they cooked their tests as well? It's certainly difficult to explain a ~15% difference in stopping distance except by tyre compound. I agree, although where the tests actually done on the same surface at the same time under the same conditions? Did they even perform the tests or are they numbers from someone else's test? And I suppose given the GT86's hooligan appeal and track appeal, how fresh where the brakes when they performed the test. If the car had already been ragged big time on track, either by them or others, then there's a chance the brakes where no where near there more normal optimum. If it was by them, how much residual heat might they have still had in them?
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the-photographer
828 posts
45 months
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kambites said: F1GTRUeno said: Wonder what type of finance deals they'd be doing.
Presumably nothing great because they'll be so popular anyway. The default deal on the Toyota website is a 6k deposit; then 300 pounds a month for 35 months; then 11.5k optional final payment. So 28k over three years for a 25k car. Is that good or bad? Compared to; Audi TT Deposit £4000 Monthly £300 (!) Final £12,500 On road £26,000 Discount £2,500 Total payable £27,000 Apr 7.4 That was on the 180ps, but I assume you'd get a similar deal for other models.
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the-photographer
828 posts
45 months
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300bhp/ton said: kambites said: the-photographer said: And they cooked their tests as well? It's certainly difficult to explain a ~15% difference in stopping distance except by tyre compound. I agree, although where the tests actually done on the same surface at the same time under the same conditions? Did they even perform the tests or are they numbers from someone else's test? And I suppose given the GT86's hooligan appeal and track appeal, how fresh where the brakes when they performed the test. If the car had already been ragged big time on track, either by them or others, then there's a chance the brakes where no where near there more normal optimum. If it was by them, how much residual heat might they have still had in them? All agreed, but unfortunately its editor@whatcar time, I'm just quoting what they published.
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otolith
19,345 posts
73 months
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kambites said: I assume you mean 70-0, not 0-70.  That's a hell of a difference though. All taken in the same place at the same time? It's about a fifth of a second at 70mph. I wondered if it was because the other two have brake assist, but all three have it fitted. Impossible to say without seeing the deceleration trace, I guess.
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Kozy
2,014 posts
87 months
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otolith said: It's about a fifth of a second at 70mph. I wondered if it was because the other two have brake assist, but all three have it fitted. Impossible to say without seeing the deceleration trace, I guess. Maybe it's to help promote the £8k TRD brake upgrade?
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otolith
19,345 posts
73 months
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I wouldn't generally expect a brake upgrade to stop a car any quicker - merely to be able to do so repeatedly without fading.
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LordGrover
18,592 posts
81 months
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the-photographer said: They measured:
TT 70-0 49.4m
Megane 70-0 50.8m
GT86 70-0 57.4m According to autoexpress: TT 70-0 50.4 m
GT86 70-0 48.8 m
350Z 70-0 44.8 m
Source: autoexpress.co.uk. You pays your money...
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Kozy
2,014 posts
87 months
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Exactly, it's hard to market effectively to the masses without going into geeky technobable.
Make the standard car stop longer than the tyres are generally capable of however... tada, £8ks worth of brakes stop you 15 meters shorter! Yay!
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s m
8,093 posts
72 months
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the-photographer said: jon- said: richardaucock said: jon- said: I've no idea, but having back-to-backed both recently on the same car, that could be more than enough to make the difference between the two.
Whoever wrote this article, can you help us? Or Max, can you zoom in on the original photos and see the tyres? Both were on Michelin Primacys, Jon. It was the first check I made when I jumped out (lightbulb quickly extinguished...) - they're possibly keeping the Energy Savers over in Japan. Makes sense, thanks Richard. If they're the new Primacy 3 they're actually extremely grippy in the dry and wet, probably not much raw grip difference between those and the Pilot Sport 3s. Interesing, I wonder what tyres where on the What Car test cars, they got marked down for high speed stopping distances (compared to the two other front wheel drive competitor cars). Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 x 17 87W I'd bet....... ( same as on a Prius... with 17" wheels )
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richardaucock
81 posts
32 months
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s m said: Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 x 17 87W I'd bet....... ( same as on a Prius... with 17" wheels ) Correct: to quote from my notes - Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 R17. I only wrote it down once, too...
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s m
8,093 posts
72 months
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😢 richardaucock said: s m said: Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 x 17 87W I'd bet....... ( same as on a Prius... with 17" wheels ) Correct: to quote from my notes - Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 R17. I only wrote it down once, too... Yep, I think it's just a bit of inaccurate reporting that has been perpetuated on the web - don't think they've ever come on Michelin Energy Saver tyres. Certainly on the same tyres as fitted to a 17" wheeled Prius........ but they're actually a high performance tyre - Michelin Primacy HP
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bicycleshorts
1,557 posts
30 months
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s m said: ISTR that when the car was touted there were rumours of a 195/55 x 16 tyre/wheel fitment on a plain Jane version with no LSD etc? Anyone heard anything further Released (if it's been released yet) in Japan only due to the 'tuning' scene over there and people wanting to fit their own wheels and diff. Spoke to someone at Toyota who didn't know it existed then denied there was such a thing, so mixed messages. I doubt it would ever come to the UK, and if it did I doubt even more that it would be £15k (or whatever the JPN price tag was).
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Johnboy Mac
2,666 posts
47 months
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LordGrover said: 
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Save Ferris
1,575 posts
82 months
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s m said: 😢 richardaucock said: s m said: Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 x 17 87W I'd bet....... ( same as on a Prius... with 17" wheels ) Correct: to quote from my notes - Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 R17. I only wrote it down once, too... Yep, I think it's just a bit of inaccurate reporting that has been perpetuated on the web - don't think they've ever come on Michelin Energy Saver tyres. Certainly on the same tyres as fitted to a 17" wheeled Prius........ but they're actually a high performance tyre - Michelin Primacy HP Anorak mode..... Prius used to come with Michelins, they now come fitted with Toyo Proxes 
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StormLoaded
846 posts
48 months
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s m said: 2/ the GT86 comes on the 215/45 x 17W fitment so you get a Michelin Primacy HP tyre. I don't think any UK cars come on Michelin Energy Saver variants as standard. i can confirm the GT86 comes with HP Primacy tyres!!  have to say, i didnt notice before, but loving the fact the arches are pre-rolled.. ripe for a set of coilovers/fat aftermarket rims  
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s m
8,093 posts
72 months
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Save Ferris said: s m said: 😢 richardaucock said: s m said: Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 x 17 87W I'd bet....... ( same as on a Prius... with 17" wheels ) Correct: to quote from my notes - Michelin Primacy HP 215/45 R17. I only wrote it down once, too... Yep, I think it's just a bit of inaccurate reporting that has been perpetuated on the web - don't think they've ever come on Michelin Energy Saver tyres. Certainly on the same tyres as fitted to a 17" wheeled Prius........ but they're actually a high performance tyre - Michelin Primacy HP Anorak mode..... Prius used to come with Michelins, they now come fitted with Toyo Proxes Is that all the sizes........ Or just the 17s?
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Save Ferris
1,575 posts
82 months
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s m said: Is that all the sizes........ Or just the 17s? Most (vitualy all in fact) of the Prius we sell are the T-Spirit, so have the 17" wheels - and since the facelift have come with with Toyo Proxes. Ive not seen a facelift version of the T3 or T-Spirit with solar roof that have the 15s yet, so not sure if they've swapped aswell.
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s m
8,093 posts
72 months
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Save Ferris said: s m said: Is that all the sizes........ Or just the 17s? Most (vitualy all in fact) of the Prius we sell are the T-Spirit, so have the 17" wheels - and since the facelift have come with with Toyo Proxes. Ive not seen a facelift version of the T3 or T-Spirit with solar roof that have the 15s yet, so not sure if they've swapped aswell. Interesting though that only the smaller wheel had an 'energy saving biased' tyre. Is there much of an economy penalty for the larger, wider wheels?
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Steve vRS
576 posts
110 months
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otolith said: I wouldn't generally expect a brake upgrade to stop a car any quicker - merely to be able to do so repeatedly without fading. Quite right. Before I had kids and did track days, I spent a fortune on better pads and discs to prolong the life of the brakes around a track. It was the tyres that was the primary factor in the actual stopping distance with the brakes providing the repeatability. Steve
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richardaucock
81 posts
32 months
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Steve vRS said: Quite right. Before I had kids and did track days, I spent a fortune on better pads and discs to prolong the life of the brakes around a track. It was the tyres that was the primary factor in the actual stopping distance with the brakes providing the repeatability.
Steve Exactly right. That's the real benefit of ceramics: not any particular additional retardation, but the ability to maintain this in duress. Often misunderstood.
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