An end to 'modified' cars?
Discussion
Prof Prolapse said:
Harding91 said:
Spotted this being spammed around lamebook. Any truth behind it at all?
Last I read it had been largely scrapped. Its unenforceable and MPs don't want it.I CBA to look into this, but as others have mentioned already - the notion that EVERY SINGLE part on a vehicle (that was not factory fitted) is type approved is COMPLETELY un-auditable.
There must be hundreds of thousands of models and variants on the road today in the UK alone! And, how many component parts (easily accessible, or hidden in sealed internals) exist on a modern performance car??
How is long would an MOT tester take to police this?? Are they going to strip a car down to check all performance parts over (differential, gearbox internals, brake pads, turbos, ECU and code, etc etc).
I own a Caterham that was factory built in 2004 - CATERHAM THEMSELVES when I called didn't recognise the model variant,when I asked if I could get the bonnet graphics resent they said they would try and find out who might have done them in that year and get back to me. What hope has an MOT tester on understanding what bits are ok and what aren't???????
If you rock up in a Saxo with a 3 metre fibreglass wing on the back, I sincerely hope the tester is allowed to remove it with a hammer and bolster, but suspension / brakes / turbos / ECUs / differentials / gearboxes etc, etc - come on!
There must be hundreds of thousands of models and variants on the road today in the UK alone! And, how many component parts (easily accessible, or hidden in sealed internals) exist on a modern performance car??
How is long would an MOT tester take to police this?? Are they going to strip a car down to check all performance parts over (differential, gearbox internals, brake pads, turbos, ECU and code, etc etc).
I own a Caterham that was factory built in 2004 - CATERHAM THEMSELVES when I called didn't recognise the model variant,when I asked if I could get the bonnet graphics resent they said they would try and find out who might have done them in that year and get back to me. What hope has an MOT tester on understanding what bits are ok and what aren't???????
If you rock up in a Saxo with a 3 metre fibreglass wing on the back, I sincerely hope the tester is allowed to remove it with a hammer and bolster, but suspension / brakes / turbos / ECUs / differentials / gearboxes etc, etc - come on!
As it turns out, the Belgians have quite an enlightened attitude to modified cars. This is an official government website...
www.how2tune.be
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl...
www.how2tune.be
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl...
Breadvan72 said:
If you CBA to read the proposal, may I politely suggest that you SBA to comment on it, especially when your comment has little to do with the content of the proposal. Dudes, this is about MOT tests, not type approvals. Look up: the sky is NOT falling.
Article 3 section 9;(9) ‘roadworthiness test’ means a verification that the parts and components of a vehicle comply with its safety and environmental characteristics in force at the time of approval, first registration or entry into service, as well as at the time of retrofitting;
This to me reads that for your car to pass the test it needs to be as it was type approved ie standard.
As for all the comments about it can't be done can i point out my post in the other thread;
Couple of points, firstly this is EU law that is being brought in. If you take the time to read the full document it goes onto say it is the member states responsibility for implementing it. I.E. the EU haven't given a moments thought about how it will affect the uk, or anywhere else for that matter, it's not their problem. The only thing the EU is interested in is standardisation across europe and the way they are doing it is by type approval.
If your car of any age is not as type approved (ie standard) it will fail the test.
They are also skipping the consultation stage by including regulations going as far back as 2000 quoting these previous rules as their consultations, therefore this could become EU law very quickly.
This is not scaremongering, we are signed up to EU law and this is about to be passed unless the WHOLE uk motoring scene bands together to fight it.
Breadvan72 said:
I have indeed taken a moment to read the draft Regulation in its entirety. I disagree with your interpretation of it. You might be right, and I might be wrong, but I base my interpretation on practical experience over many years in the interpretation of EU and UK legislation.
I'm in agreement with this guy.Dave Hedgehog said:
From a laypersons perspective the kits have to be legal to pass the current MOT, so would they not be deemed standard spec
Aren't German after market parts TUV passed (German MOT?) any way?
Exactly this ^ Aren't German after market parts TUV passed (German MOT?) any way?
All aftermarket parts in Germany should have TUV approval.
I cannot see this as a bad thing.
Breadvan72 said:
I have indeed taken a moment to read the draft Regulation in its entirety. I disagree with your interpretation of it. You might be right, and I might be wrong, but I base my interpretation on practical experience over many years in the interpretation of EU and UK legislation.
And vica versa sir. As members of one of the biggest motoring forums I sincerely hope everyone will read the documents and make up their own minds. If some don't believe it then that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I personally hope we can make enough noise now to at bare minimum get it looked at by the uk government and altered to take into account the huge modified scene and history this country has.
We can't just sit back and either say or hope nothing is going to happen.
We can't just sit back and either say or hope nothing is going to happen.
kambites said:
Breadvan72 said:
No, it hasn't. They would have to have roadworthiness tests: same as now.
Indeed. As far as I can see, this is simply making it mandatory for all EU countries to have an MoT (which some don't at the moment). 
The only thing that I might be concerned by is the vague mention of environmental components being not as manufactured. Currently, so long as you pass the blanket emissions tests, you're OK - but now, it seems possible that you would need to be within an acceptable range of emissions results for that particular car, to try and demonstrate you hadn't modified anything that led to emissions? Seems very impractical to implement anything like that? So perhaps nothing will change at all.
Breadvan72 said:
Prof Prolapse said:
Harding91 said:
Spotted this being spammed around lamebook. Any truth behind it at all?
Last I read it had been largely scrapped. Its unenforceable and MPs don't want it.Its a lot of fuss over nothing.
Jakub said:
Exactly this ^
All aftermarket parts in Germany should have TUV approval.
I cannot see this as a bad thing.
How much would that cost someone like Jim Valentine at 2bular, basically a one man operation making exhaust systems for Lotus cars? How about custom fabricated parts for rare cars? Getting TUV approval for a part for a Golf or a 3-series may not be a significant expense for the manufacturer, but it's more red tape that a small business making low volume parts for a niche market doesn't need.All aftermarket parts in Germany should have TUV approval.
I cannot see this as a bad thing.
(I don't know what the impact of this legislation is on that scenario, merely addressing Jakub's point that having to get parts approved is not a bad thing)
Breadvan72 said:
People are reading far too much into this, and getting wound up by "we told you so!" and "the sky is falling!' websites written by people with zero apparent expertise in European law.
They are not. The Legislation does not permit a 'pass' without the vehicle conforming 100% to the original Type Approval. Sticking on a set of aftermarket wheels deviates from the Type Approval, therefore your car WILL NOT pass the test, and will therefore have to be referred to a BIVA Test, costing upwards of £200.shakotan said:
Breadvan72 said:
People are reading far too much into this, and getting wound up by "we told you so!" and "the sky is falling!' websites written by people with zero apparent expertise in European law.
They are not. The Legislation does not permit a 'pass' without the vehicle conforming 100% to the original Type Approval. Sticking on a set of aftermarket wheels deviates from the Type Approval, therefore your car WILL NOT pass the test, and will therefore have to be referred to a BIVA Test, costing upwards of £200.
Kozy said:
AFAIK even those crappy £200 coilovers on ebay can get TUV approval...
That's because they're selling a gazillion of the same unit. If you want to cater for low volume applications (say Caterhams) and/or are into more bespoke/indepth engineering, the Tüv route can be a huge cost drain. While I have no real qualms with the general idea of validating modifications either through general certification for a list of applications, or certification of the part which needs to be followed by a MOT-style assessment of the installation on the vehicle (as per TüV), common sense should be used in deciding what parts this should apply to and how the tests are being performed, or we risk losing a huge part of the aftermarket industry (and not necessarily the least valuable part, either - as per the above the purveyors of general boy racer tat are among the most likely to afford certification of their wares, a test certificate doesn't indicate the part or modification is any good) for no tangible safety benefit...
shakotan said:
Breadvan72 said:
People are reading far too much into this, and getting wound up by "we told you so!" and "the sky is falling!' websites written by people with zero apparent expertise in European law.
They are not. The Legislation does not permit a 'pass' without the vehicle conforming 100% to the original Type Approval. Sticking on a set of aftermarket wheels deviates from the Type Approval, therefore your car WILL NOT pass the test, and will therefore have to be referred to a BIVA Test, costing upwards of £200.It will never happen. Along with legislation go interpretation and enforcement.
The same goes for most of the other non-sense. It simply isn't workable. It will either flat out go back to policy makers or will never be enforced.
shakotan said:
Breadvan72 said:
People are reading far too much into this, and getting wound up by "we told you so!" and "the sky is falling!' websites written by people with zero apparent expertise in European law.
They are not. The Legislation does not permit a 'pass' without the vehicle conforming 100% to the original Type Approval. Sticking on a set of aftermarket wheels deviates from the Type Approval, therefore your car WILL NOT pass the test, and will therefore have to be referred to a BIVA Test, costing upwards of £200.- Except the Pope, but he gets driven about in a chair, so screw him.
My personal situation;
I have a 1959 ford Pop 103E Hot Rod. This car has been a hot rod in various forms since the early 1980s, therefore it has been a modified car for longer than it has been a standard car. I am 75% through a major overhaul and have many thousands of pounds (and hours) invested. There is NO WAY my car could be returned to standard specification. Therefore my car will be removed from the road and i wil have 2 options;
1. Take it for a BIVA test. Pointless as it would never pass the test purely by the shape and design of the car, not to mention things like the glass would not conform to the test etc etc. So this leaves me option 2;
My car will be scrap.
I have a 1959 ford Pop 103E Hot Rod. This car has been a hot rod in various forms since the early 1980s, therefore it has been a modified car for longer than it has been a standard car. I am 75% through a major overhaul and have many thousands of pounds (and hours) invested. There is NO WAY my car could be returned to standard specification. Therefore my car will be removed from the road and i wil have 2 options;
1. Take it for a BIVA test. Pointless as it would never pass the test purely by the shape and design of the car, not to mention things like the glass would not conform to the test etc etc. So this leaves me option 2;
My car will be scrap.
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