An end to 'modified' cars?
Discussion
Proceed with caution, the “prophet of doom “is about to make an observation concerning the direction this thread is going: - It would appear that if you can’t beat it and you can’t join it then your only alternative is to ridicule it out of existence by introducing all the nasties that you can dream up, most people are sick to death of all the subjects mentioned and could just choose to ignore this site in future. Maybe that is your aim, what are you motives my good man?
Now can we please get back the core subject: - Automobiles, EU Reg’s and the new MOT testing.
Now can we please get back the core subject: - Automobiles, EU Reg’s and the new MOT testing.
I don't have any motive other than encouraging people to be realistic, and am, if you pay attention, arguing for the maintenance of something like the present UK system with maybe even some possible relaxations afforded by the proposal; but I enjoy laughing at conspiracy nutters, even if it is a tad cruel to mock the afflicted.
You say that you have been forecasting doom for 23 years, so it wouldn't do for you to be wrong, would it?
As we are still some way off legislation, I think that there is little point in debating further about a draft that is unlikely to represent the finished instrument, if there is one. Others can of course debate it all they wish, but I shall wait for the next significant draft.
You say that you have been forecasting doom for 23 years, so it wouldn't do for you to be wrong, would it?
As we are still some way off legislation, I think that there is little point in debating further about a draft that is unlikely to represent the finished instrument, if there is one. Others can of course debate it all they wish, but I shall wait for the next significant draft.
Breadvan72 said:
The other thread has degenerated into Anti-Semitism (or trollery, I am not sure which). Over here, we only have Nick Griffin to contend with.
Here's a CSB:-
This morning, I took my 1983 Talbot-Matra Murena for an MOT Test. The car has been upgraded by a previous owner to what is called S spec, by the fitting of a Holbay cam and two big carbs. It also has a previous owner's choice of comedy Council House exhaust system, and oversized tyres (they are going, as they knack the handling).
Here it is, outside my mum's bungalow:-
This car does not exist on the VOSA database. The V5 says simple that it is a "Matra".
The car passed the test, and the bloke did not bat an eyelid, although he enthused about the car It ought to fail all tests on the basis of the vile 80s porn knickers upholstery (see below), but, strangely, it didn't.
What will happen if the rules change? Who knows? We are so far off a clear set of new rules, that I shall just carry on enjoying the silliness of the car for a while yet.
Sir, that is a damn fine vehicle of which I am very jealous.Do you have a thread on here about it or any further pics or details?Here's a CSB:-
This morning, I took my 1983 Talbot-Matra Murena for an MOT Test. The car has been upgraded by a previous owner to what is called S spec, by the fitting of a Holbay cam and two big carbs. It also has a previous owner's choice of comedy Council House exhaust system, and oversized tyres (they are going, as they knack the handling).
Here it is, outside my mum's bungalow:-
This car does not exist on the VOSA database. The V5 says simple that it is a "Matra".
The car passed the test, and the bloke did not bat an eyelid, although he enthused about the car It ought to fail all tests on the basis of the vile 80s porn knickers upholstery (see below), but, strangely, it didn't.
What will happen if the rules change? Who knows? We are so far off a clear set of new rules, that I shall just carry on enjoying the silliness of the car for a while yet.
Thanks. There is a thread in Readers' Heaps here:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Reply to breadvan72 regarding the MOT test on your MATRA.
This illustrates the difference between their (TUV) system and ours (MOT) also the difference in mind set between the European testers and your local bloke (tester).
I went for test with my extremely low mileage, mint condition: - Talbot Sunbeam Lotus series 2 which the previous owner had upgraded with fast road reprofiled camshafts, stage 2 reworked cyl-head and rejetted Weber DCOE 40 carbs.
The car did not pass the test, the tester entered the details into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, enter federal type number (normally entered in the brief /V5)
Tester entered relevant details amended into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, not on federal data base, refer to manufacturer for federal certificate.
Tester, “Sorry cannot test without access to data-base, suggest you contact Talbot.
Main-dealer response: - “Oh never heard of that model, don’t have a reference number for it, this is out of our area of operation, it is better if you contact HQ direct (here is the address) and I hope you speak French, (something muttered about passing the buck, bloody foreigners and good luck with this, you will need it from our experience
When in a tight corner the indomitable English stiff- upper lip takes over and yes after a great deal of effort I did achieve a pass certificate. Was it worth the hassle? .Most definitely the Sunbeam- Lotus is right at the top of my list of ultimate “fun-cars” from a fast drivers prospective.
This illustrates the difference between their (TUV) system and ours (MOT) also the difference in mind set between the European testers and your local bloke (tester).
I went for test with my extremely low mileage, mint condition: - Talbot Sunbeam Lotus series 2 which the previous owner had upgraded with fast road reprofiled camshafts, stage 2 reworked cyl-head and rejetted Weber DCOE 40 carbs.
The car did not pass the test, the tester entered the details into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, enter federal type number (normally entered in the brief /V5)
Tester entered relevant details amended into the computer which replied: - access denied vehicle not recognised, not on federal data base, refer to manufacturer for federal certificate.
Tester, “Sorry cannot test without access to data-base, suggest you contact Talbot.
Main-dealer response: - “Oh never heard of that model, don’t have a reference number for it, this is out of our area of operation, it is better if you contact HQ direct (here is the address) and I hope you speak French, (something muttered about passing the buck, bloody foreigners and good luck with this, you will need it from our experience
When in a tight corner the indomitable English stiff- upper lip takes over and yes after a great deal of effort I did achieve a pass certificate. Was it worth the hassle? .Most definitely the Sunbeam- Lotus is right at the top of my list of ultimate “fun-cars” from a fast drivers prospective.
Reply to Breadvan72 , It would be a real sin to take your bet because if UK gets EU reg’s you would loose , if UK does not get EU reg’s I would immediately claim that was because of the ruckuses, letter writing and MEP / MP, E mail activity created by “ the Prophet of Doom club” so we won , right !
At the risk of boring a lot of motor modifiers I would like to share an event that occurred in the EU with regard to the motor industry and see how new reg’s can really hurt everyone by way of collateral damage. You will probably have zero knowledge of this event because the EU parliament does not admit to mistakes or publicises its failures.
This relates to vehicle scrappage and environmental pollution ie: - Scrap yards. In conjunction with the very active “Green-party” who constantly maintain lobby pressure on EU bosses to contain various arena’s of special interest it was decided to revamp the reg’s covering the “end of life certification” on motor vehicles by adding another clause to existing reg’s.
Simplified Version :- As of date xxxxx all vehicles prior to crushing will have all fluids, oil, trans fluids, pas & air-con anti-freeze fluid removed .Even shock- absorber fluid ( a very labour intensive operation) all these fluids must be stored in separate containers and disposed of via authorised hazardous material agents .
Also: - “All plastic material must by removed”, (Another very labour intensive operation)
So far not too much of a problem! Wrong!! All that stripping out requires a considerable increase in man-power; some of it semi-skilled which inflates the operating costs of the business. The hazardous fluids disposal is expensive (the agents CEO’s all drive top of the line Mercedes) because the Gov’t mandates that the disposal companies are the only way to go.
So when the scrappies truck arrives at the crusher expecting to collect money for the weight-in he discovers that they have been forced to impose an end of life disposal fee of approx Euro 200/250 to cover operating costs. This now has knock- back effects to private owners, dealers and insurance companies even car-sales (comes off your trade value ) the fee was required to be paid by cash in a lot of instances but that was not the biggest obstacle.
The EU has a habit of not thinking its legislation through correctly and causing major dramas likes so:-
Back at the crusher the workers were very busy ripping out all the plastic and piling it up and piling and piling until the whole available space was full, at this point they could not rent available storage space because sensible land owners did not want to get lumbered with tons of plastic that had no market
This situation forced the crushers to shut down until the problems could be resolved, next the scrap transporters shut down, end of life centres went on short time and could not take in any cars, car sales used up all available space storing old trade-ins until eventually the main dealers were affected. Now you can imagine what was happening in the board rooms of the major manufacturers when the car sales suddenly came to an abrupted halt. It seems you cannot sell new cars when disposal of oldies stops.
Requests for help at top levels fell on deaf ears at the EU and the devastating situation continued until some desperate individuals started fly tipping on a gigantic scale, some loads of plastic turned up in the most weird places like the middle of the North- Sea fishing grounds where it finally ended up washed up on Dutch beaches, this resulted in the massive intervention by various EPA’s to get the EU to back down.
WHAT IS MY POINT? Just illustrating how much power it takes to move the Union of Europe!!
At the risk of boring a lot of motor modifiers I would like to share an event that occurred in the EU with regard to the motor industry and see how new reg’s can really hurt everyone by way of collateral damage. You will probably have zero knowledge of this event because the EU parliament does not admit to mistakes or publicises its failures.
This relates to vehicle scrappage and environmental pollution ie: - Scrap yards. In conjunction with the very active “Green-party” who constantly maintain lobby pressure on EU bosses to contain various arena’s of special interest it was decided to revamp the reg’s covering the “end of life certification” on motor vehicles by adding another clause to existing reg’s.
Simplified Version :- As of date xxxxx all vehicles prior to crushing will have all fluids, oil, trans fluids, pas & air-con anti-freeze fluid removed .Even shock- absorber fluid ( a very labour intensive operation) all these fluids must be stored in separate containers and disposed of via authorised hazardous material agents .
Also: - “All plastic material must by removed”, (Another very labour intensive operation)
So far not too much of a problem! Wrong!! All that stripping out requires a considerable increase in man-power; some of it semi-skilled which inflates the operating costs of the business. The hazardous fluids disposal is expensive (the agents CEO’s all drive top of the line Mercedes) because the Gov’t mandates that the disposal companies are the only way to go.
So when the scrappies truck arrives at the crusher expecting to collect money for the weight-in he discovers that they have been forced to impose an end of life disposal fee of approx Euro 200/250 to cover operating costs. This now has knock- back effects to private owners, dealers and insurance companies even car-sales (comes off your trade value ) the fee was required to be paid by cash in a lot of instances but that was not the biggest obstacle.
The EU has a habit of not thinking its legislation through correctly and causing major dramas likes so:-
Back at the crusher the workers were very busy ripping out all the plastic and piling it up and piling and piling until the whole available space was full, at this point they could not rent available storage space because sensible land owners did not want to get lumbered with tons of plastic that had no market
This situation forced the crushers to shut down until the problems could be resolved, next the scrap transporters shut down, end of life centres went on short time and could not take in any cars, car sales used up all available space storing old trade-ins until eventually the main dealers were affected. Now you can imagine what was happening in the board rooms of the major manufacturers when the car sales suddenly came to an abrupted halt. It seems you cannot sell new cars when disposal of oldies stops.
Requests for help at top levels fell on deaf ears at the EU and the devastating situation continued until some desperate individuals started fly tipping on a gigantic scale, some loads of plastic turned up in the most weird places like the middle of the North- Sea fishing grounds where it finally ended up washed up on Dutch beaches, this resulted in the massive intervention by various EPA’s to get the EU to back down.
WHAT IS MY POINT? Just illustrating how much power it takes to move the Union of Europe!!
The bet is simple. The wager is that, 12 months from now, no EU or UK legislation has been passed under which the the UK has to operate a system equivalent to the TUV system. The stake is one hundred pounds payable to a charity of the winner's choice. This being a wager, it is, like all wagers, enforceable in honour only.
The wager is not about the reason why no such legislation occurs (if such turns out to be the case), although, as you rightly observe, many will claim credit for this through writing ill informed petitions and so forth, even though the real reason may very well be that the Government never meant to introduce such a system anyway, and certainly was never going to pay for it.
The wager is not about the reason why no such legislation occurs (if such turns out to be the case), although, as you rightly observe, many will claim credit for this through writing ill informed petitions and so forth, even though the real reason may very well be that the Government never meant to introduce such a system anyway, and certainly was never going to pay for it.
Heaven help us, it's made it to the Daily Fail now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199311/Mi...
This gem from the Auto Express "potentially something as minor as changing the stereo could result in an MoT failure”.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199311/Mi...
This gem from the Auto Express "potentially something as minor as changing the stereo could result in an MoT failure”.
k off.Having read this thread, and seen how easily a discussion can be sent spirraling off topic, I especially liked this bit.
Yes, that's right: I have been a lawyer for over 25 years and... blah blah blah... judging by my colleagues, who are far more talented and distinguished than I could ever be, brainy lawyers, when you can find them, are brainy indeed. Judges of the English High Court and above tend, with some exceptions, to be extraordinarily bright. Contrary to internet myth, they also live in the real world.And then along came Judge Peter Bowers to call burglars couragious... Yeah, very bright, and living in the real world. I guess he's one of the exceptions then.
Breadvan72 said:
LuS1fer said:
Breadvan72 said:
Everyone seems to think that the lawyering is something that you can do on the basis of zero training. After all, how hard can it be? In fact, it takes a minimum of five years, and often longer that that, for a person to qualify to practise law in the UK. Legal method, legal reasoning, and the canons of construction are amongst the tools of the trade. They are learned skills, which improve when practised.
You clearly haven't met many lawyers. Many of my profession drive me to despair, such is their incomptence, and I have met many a lay person who are far better lawyers than I in many areas.I may be controversial here, but I wouldnt be sad to see a large number of modified cars outlawed, by that I mean the DIY big exhaust big wheeled lowered brigade....
Yep, if I never see another boyed up Saxo or Corsa again i will be a happy man!
Properly modded cars I dont have a problem with..by that I mean the stuff that the likes of K-TEC and Litchfield come up with....
Yep, if I never see another boyed up Saxo or Corsa again i will be a happy man!
Properly modded cars I dont have a problem with..by that I mean the stuff that the likes of K-TEC and Litchfield come up with....
All, how many of you have signed the epetition? As at 10.49 this morning there are only 7006 signatures. Current market estimates 165,000 classic cars in the UK. So where are you all? Pls follow link and do the right thing 
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37784
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37784
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