RE: PH Buying Guide: Vauxhall VX220
Discussion
I have been lucky enough to have owned both a VX220 N/A and a couple of Elise's.
The VX is a massively capable car but for me personally the Elise is the better all round package. I find it unfathomable that some Elise owners ridicule the VX. But equally I find it strange that VX owners beat the "it's the same car" drum.
Just be happy in the knowledge that you have a cracker of a car which ever you drive!
I noticed that some VX's are down as low as £6.5K - at that price it's an unbelievable bargain!
The VX is a massively capable car but for me personally the Elise is the better all round package. I find it unfathomable that some Elise owners ridicule the VX. But equally I find it strange that VX owners beat the "it's the same car" drum.
Just be happy in the knowledge that you have a cracker of a car which ever you drive!
I noticed that some VX's are down as low as £6.5K - at that price it's an unbelievable bargain!
cliffie said:
Hi wooooody,
Most VX220 owners go for a 16/17 inch wheel combination then run the 195/45-17 fronts, there are a few die hard fans of originality that stick to the Bridgestones.
As for the hub bolts snapping. Not unique to the VX220 and the 8.8 can snap especially on a track day car with sticky tyres such as the Yokohama or Toyo. The change from the 8.8 to the 10.9 was in fact a Lotus originated fix and advised for all Elise/Exige at Lotus servicing and the bolt kit became a Lotus supplied part. I doubt you would notice that bolt slowly weakening over time and no warning is given whatever grade you use.
The VX220 has wider sills hence better side impact protection.
You could always go to www.vx220.org.uk if you want to learn facts about the VX220 rather than post incorrect information.
'Most' Really? I know of two; I know lots more Vx owners than that. It's still not simple to fit S2 wheels.Most VX220 owners go for a 16/17 inch wheel combination then run the 195/45-17 fronts, there are a few die hard fans of originality that stick to the Bridgestones.
As for the hub bolts snapping. Not unique to the VX220 and the 8.8 can snap especially on a track day car with sticky tyres such as the Yokohama or Toyo. The change from the 8.8 to the 10.9 was in fact a Lotus originated fix and advised for all Elise/Exige at Lotus servicing and the bolt kit became a Lotus supplied part. I doubt you would notice that bolt slowly weakening over time and no warning is given whatever grade you use.
The VX220 has wider sills hence better side impact protection.
You could always go to www.vx220.org.uk if you want to learn facts about the VX220 rather than post incorrect information.
Wider & lower sills you mean? Does vx220.org have anything to back up that this was the safety change? Or was it just to aid access?
If I was tracking my car regularly, I'd be making sure I or someone else was checking these sort of things. 10.9 will go with a bang, I know it's a factory SB, but can see the downsides.
Have been to vx220.org in the past thanks.
It's the only place other than PH VX220 articles I've seen the crash safety thing mentioned. Coincidence?P.S. People in glass houses etc..
I doubt Lotus were ever scared about the VX220 cannibalising Elise sales much - they will have known full well that most buyers are too snobbish for that.
It's a shame in a way, because the VX220 deserved to sell much better than it did. I went into my test drives fully expecting to buy a VX220 but ultimately was disappointed. If I'd been looking a little further down the market in terms of price, I probably would have ended up with a N/A VX220 though.
It's a shame in a way, because the VX220 deserved to sell much better than it did. I went into my test drives fully expecting to buy a VX220 but ultimately was disappointed. If I'd been looking a little further down the market in terms of price, I probably would have ended up with a N/A VX220 though.
cliffie said:
Vauxhall specc'd the 17" fronts for aesthetics we are told but the truth is more that they wanted the car to appeal to a wider range of potential customers than the Elise and in fitting the ABS and the 17" front wheel it was far less likely that a "normal" road user would stick it in the nearest ditch or hedge. This is why the VX in standard trim will lean towards understeer rather than the Elise's tendency to oversteer.
There is another school of thought that the Lotus test drivers drove the original VX220 2.2 NA (145BHP) round Hethel and came back saying that the VX was good, so good that it was better than the Elise (which was still a 1.8 K Series at the time) and the instructions came back that the VX must be pegged back as there was no way it could go up against the Elise in all the back to back magazine road tests that were going to happen. Thus the VX got softened and the Elise beat it in every comparison test (not by much I hasten to add).
What is fact is that the original VX came out of the factory with a softer geo, less focussed dampers/springs, higher ride height, 17" front wheels, naff ABS system and more weight.
S2 elises also use skinny fronts & 175 section tyres contrary to what the article says and also tend towards understeer.There is another school of thought that the Lotus test drivers drove the original VX220 2.2 NA (145BHP) round Hethel and came back saying that the VX was good, so good that it was better than the Elise (which was still a 1.8 K Series at the time) and the instructions came back that the VX must be pegged back as there was no way it could go up against the Elise in all the back to back magazine road tests that were going to happen. Thus the VX got softened and the Elise beat it in every comparison test (not by much I hasten to add).
What is fact is that the original VX came out of the factory with a softer geo, less focussed dampers/springs, higher ride height, 17" front wheels, naff ABS system and more weight.
Edited by cliffie on Friday 31st August 14:43
I tend to think Vauxhall will have determined the handling characteristscs for the car for Lotus to work to, and in this case probably to an agreement that it would offer 'safer' handling & be softer than the elise?
There's not much wrong with a VX, they are really good cars. It's just jumping from a sport 160 into one makes it feel a bit tame in character. I nearly bought one, it was the sensible thing to do at the time, but the ex veto'd it after seeing one next to an elise.
wooooody said:
'Most' Really? I know of two; I know lots more Vx owners than that. It's still not simple to fit S2 wheels.
Wider & lower sills you mean? Does vx220.org have anything to back up that this was the safety change? Or was it just to aid access?
If I was tracking my car regularly, I'd be making sure I or someone else was checking these sort of things. 10.9 will go with a bang, I know it's a factory SB, but can see the downsides.
Have been to vx220.org in the past thanks. It's the only place other than PH VX220 articles I've seen the crash safety thing mentioned. Coincidence?
P.S. People in glass houses etc..
You have lost me with the glass houses bit woooody; sorry.Wider & lower sills you mean? Does vx220.org have anything to back up that this was the safety change? Or was it just to aid access?
If I was tracking my car regularly, I'd be making sure I or someone else was checking these sort of things. 10.9 will go with a bang, I know it's a factory SB, but can see the downsides.
Have been to vx220.org in the past thanks.
It's the only place other than PH VX220 articles I've seen the crash safety thing mentioned. Coincidence?P.S. People in glass houses etc..
The 16/17 wheel combo on the VX is still a 5 stud Vauxhall pattern and the popular choice is the Team Dynamics TD1.2. And yes, most owners I know (and I know a whole load more than you I bet). Very few went to the trouble of fitting the Lotus four stud hub to fit the S2 wheels although some did. There is a few options out there on five stud designed for the VX from Speedline, ATC and of course Rimstock.
Now here is a fact for you. The S1 Elise was coming to the end of it's life as the upcoming changes in crash test regulations meant the S1 chassis would not pass. Lotus did not have the money to develop a new or modified chassis and a deal was agreed with Vauxhall who stepped in, built a new production line and fronted the development costs for the VX220/S2 tub.
Second fact, the sill were widened and the doors protection beefed up meaning the new tub for the VX and S2 would pass the new legislation.
That is not heresay or conjecture, it is fact.
I race mine in Time Attack and have, in the last four years, done many a track day and whilst I check the car very regularly, it is only possible to check the bolts by removing them which then makes it pointless putting them back in TBH and I just tend to replace. I and other serious track day VX owners treat these bolts as a service part.
Edited by cliffie on Friday 31st August 15:31
wooooody said:
S2 elises also use skinny fronts & 175 section tyres contrary to what the article says and also tend towards understeer.
I tend to think Vauxhall will have determined the handling characteristscs for the car for Lotus to work to, and in this case probably to an agreement that it would offer 'safer' handling & be softer than the elise?
There's not much wrong with a VX, they are really good cars. It's just jumping from a sport 160 into one makes it feel a bit tame in character. I nearly bought one, it was the sensible thing to do at the time, but the ex veto'd it after seeing one next to an elise.
I know the Elise S2 used the 175 tyre but still on the 16 which coupled with the Elise geo/ride height from factory still made the Elise the better handling car.I tend to think Vauxhall will have determined the handling characteristscs for the car for Lotus to work to, and in this case probably to an agreement that it would offer 'safer' handling & be softer than the elise?
There's not much wrong with a VX, they are really good cars. It's just jumping from a sport 160 into one makes it feel a bit tame in character. I nearly bought one, it was the sensible thing to do at the time, but the ex veto'd it after seeing one next to an elise.
I also tend to think the characteristics were a Vauxhall/Lotus discussion which is why I said it was a school of thought and in no way did I present it as fact.
Yup, a 160 Elise to a standard 2.2 VX would be disappointing, I fully agree with you and I also agree with the aesthetics, the Elise is a very pretty car and the badge has far more kudos.
cliffie said:
EXPAT 500 said:
Elise is ten times better....and it has a decent badge! 
Shame only one has been passed me on a track day.hunt_the_fox said:
I can believe that, I seem to remember a very rainy day at Silverstone, when the track dried out you and a few other boys in VXs were flying around, I'd just had my 996 turbo mapped up to 470bhp but there was no way I could live with the VXs in the corners (a lack of talent may also be to blame).
I have that on video and was just watching it, small world.EXPAT 500 said:
Rawwr said:
EXPAT 500 said:
It doesn't matter how fast you can thrash it round a track, it will still only ever be a Vauxhall.
If it was a half decent car then the second hand values would be much higher.
Vauxhall should stick to what they do best - boring family cars
Cretin.If it was a half decent car then the second hand values would be much higher.
Vauxhall should stick to what they do best - boring family cars
Also, is it a rule that those who take the piss out of other peoples cars never post what they drive in their profiles or do not have a driving licence yet?
From the VX220s I have seen what I've seen what Vauxhall do best is make 2 seater mid engined sportscars.
kambites said:
It's a shame in a way, because the VX220 deserved to sell much better than it did.
Yes, and not helped by the advertising. A colleague was going to buy one until that awful Griff-Rhys-Jones-in-his-underpants ad aired on TV and the receptionist at work laughed at him over it. What the hell were they thinking\smoking at the time they signed that campaign off?
wooooody said:
cliffie said:
Vauxhall specc'd the 17" fronts for aesthetics we are told but the truth is more that they wanted the car to appeal to a wider range of potential customers than the Elise and in fitting the ABS and the 17" front wheel it was far less likely that a "normal" road user would stick it in the nearest ditch or hedge. This is why the VX in standard trim will lean towards understeer rather than the Elise's tendency to oversteer.
There is another school of thought that the Lotus test drivers drove the original VX220 2.2 NA (145BHP) round Hethel and came back saying that the VX was good, so good that it was better than the Elise (which was still a 1.8 K Series at the time) and the instructions came back that the VX must be pegged back as there was no way it could go up against the Elise in all the back to back magazine road tests that were going to happen. Thus the VX got softened and the Elise beat it in every comparison test (not by much I hasten to add).
What is fact is that the original VX came out of the factory with a softer geo, less focussed dampers/springs, higher ride height, 17" front wheels, naff ABS system and more weight.
S2 elises also use skinny fronts & 175 section tyres contrary to what the article says and also tend towards understeer.There is another school of thought that the Lotus test drivers drove the original VX220 2.2 NA (145BHP) round Hethel and came back saying that the VX was good, so good that it was better than the Elise (which was still a 1.8 K Series at the time) and the instructions came back that the VX must be pegged back as there was no way it could go up against the Elise in all the back to back magazine road tests that were going to happen. Thus the VX got softened and the Elise beat it in every comparison test (not by much I hasten to add).
What is fact is that the original VX came out of the factory with a softer geo, less focussed dampers/springs, higher ride height, 17" front wheels, naff ABS system and more weight.
Edited by cliffie on Friday 31st August 14:43
I tend to think Vauxhall will have determined the handling characteristscs for the car for Lotus to work to, and in this case probably to an agreement that it would offer 'safer' handling & be softer than the elise?
There's not much wrong with a VX, they are really good cars. It's just jumping from a sport 160 into one makes it feel a bit tame in character. I nearly bought one, it was the sensible thing to do at the time, but the ex veto'd it after seeing one next to an elise.
I tested an Elise and a VX and decided on the VX, for a start it's a much rarer car which I like and like for like price wise it's a generally better package all round IMO of course, I wouldn't change it for an Elise.
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