RE: 1.0-litre Formula Ford laps Norschleife in 7:22
Discussion
J-P said:
Yes I saw that - but isn't that for a customer buying into Formula Ford championship? The chassis builders are not going to be making 1,000 per year of these and presumably couldn't benefit from the economies of scale that Ford could? So yes, if I was buying a new race car with margin for all parties, then £46k+VAT is right but if I'm buying a road car which is built by Ford, in reasonable volume, then I'd expect it to cost a lot less - or is that way off the mark?
The EcoBoost chassis has some carbon fibre control parts which manufacturers have to include (front and rear crash boxes are mentioned), which is claimed to reduce overall costs. The rest is tubular steel, so how much cost saving would there be? I guess* that a production run of a few thousand vehicles wouldn't justify an investment in tooling. As another pure guess, I imagine it would be similar to Caterham processes and volumes.If Ford could suddenly mass-produce these chassis for, e.g. £7K-8K it would put all the race chassis manufacturers out of business.
I don't know about the cost of the gearbox, but if it's a sequential transaxle you're looking at, what? £6000? (I would guess the racers use Hewland or someone similar).
*Based on nothing but gut feel and the desire to back up my point
Russ Bost said:
Apparently from the no. of hits I'm picking up on my website there is a link to me on here somewhere 
Tho' I've not found it yet??? I've been building these
There is Tho' I've not found it yet??? I've been building theseI had a quick scan, and the only problem I find is seemingly to build any kit car like this takes a lot of mechanical knowledge and part sourcing.
Its very intimidating, if a package could be bought with all parts included and step by step instructions I'd be a lot more inclined.
xRIEx said:
chuntington101 said:
Intresting. makes you wonder how fast the 1.6 turbo veriosn of the Formula Ford cars would be!
It's 40BHP down on this example.Dont suppose you have any idea how much a 1.6turbo FF costs new do you? Be intrtesting to see how much they cost new.
Regards,
Chris.
r-r-r-road l-legal?
I've been arguing for a while that downsizing was a far better option (for now at least) than hybrids or full EVs, glad someone is finally getting it right and doing the halo car thing to prove it. Would really like to know what they've done to get that power output.. I would love to spend some time going over one of these engines.
I've been arguing for a while that downsizing was a far better option (for now at least) than hybrids or full EVs, glad someone is finally getting it right and doing the halo car thing to prove it. Would really like to know what they've done to get that power output.. I would love to spend some time going over one of these engines.
"I had a quick scan, and the only problem I find is seemingly to build any kit car like this takes a lot of mechanical knowledge and part sourcing"
In the case of the Furore F1 all parts come from one source, the MR2 MK1 (& there are still sufficient around to source the sort of volume I sell - if demand increased we'd simply switch to more bespoke parts, which increased volume would justify) with the exception of the steering rack which is Cinquecento/Seicento & readily available. I can provide all parts to build if required, all a question of budget.
Projects like this are not hard if approached correctly, what really costs the time & therefore money are all the little fiddly bits of finishing off, improving panel fit etc. Requires virtually no mechanical knowledge for that sort of thing, just time & patience. The other place people often seek assistance is with wiring, but we can supply a loom & instructions that anyone with a little electrical knowledge & a reasonable amount of common sense should be able to follow.
Anyone that kids themselves that putting a Formula Ford or any other race car on the road is easy is a fool (believe me, I've done it) by the time you've changed the suspension to get a sensible ride height, changed steering wheel/column/brakes & seat belt mountings to comply with IVA regs & then added stuff like handbrake/lights/indicators/& control equipment for same it's far easier & cheaper to start with something that was designed as a road car (albeit looking at a glance like a race car) in the first place.
In the case of the Furore F1 all parts come from one source, the MR2 MK1 (& there are still sufficient around to source the sort of volume I sell - if demand increased we'd simply switch to more bespoke parts, which increased volume would justify) with the exception of the steering rack which is Cinquecento/Seicento & readily available. I can provide all parts to build if required, all a question of budget.
Projects like this are not hard if approached correctly, what really costs the time & therefore money are all the little fiddly bits of finishing off, improving panel fit etc. Requires virtually no mechanical knowledge for that sort of thing, just time & patience. The other place people often seek assistance is with wiring, but we can supply a loom & instructions that anyone with a little electrical knowledge & a reasonable amount of common sense should be able to follow.
Anyone that kids themselves that putting a Formula Ford or any other race car on the road is easy is a fool (believe me, I've done it) by the time you've changed the suspension to get a sensible ride height, changed steering wheel/column/brakes & seat belt mountings to comply with IVA regs & then added stuff like handbrake/lights/indicators/& control equipment for same it's far easier & cheaper to start with something that was designed as a road car (albeit looking at a glance like a race car) in the first place.
chuntington101 said:
xRIEx said:
chuntington101 said:
Intresting. makes you wonder how fast the 1.6 turbo veriosn of the Formula Ford cars would be!
It's 40BHP down on this example.Dont suppose you have any idea how much a 1.6turbo FF costs new do you? Be intrtesting to see how much they cost new.
Regards,
Chris.
xRIEx said:
J-P said:
Yes I saw that - but isn't that for a customer buying into Formula Ford championship? The chassis builders are not going to be making 1,000 per year of these and presumably couldn't benefit from the economies of scale that Ford could? So yes, if I was buying a new race car with margin for all parties, then £46k+VAT is right but if I'm buying a road car which is built by Ford, in reasonable volume, then I'd expect it to cost a lot less - or is that way off the mark?
The EcoBoost chassis has some carbon fibre control parts which manufacturers have to include (front and rear crash boxes are mentioned), which is claimed to reduce overall costs. The rest is tubular steel, so how much cost saving would there be? I guess* that a production run of a few thousand vehicles wouldn't justify an investment in tooling. As another pure guess, I imagine it would be similar to Caterham processes and volumes.If Ford could suddenly mass-produce these chassis for, e.g. £7K-8K it would put all the race chassis manufacturers out of business.
I don't know about the cost of the gearbox, but if it's a sequential transaxle you're looking at, what? £6000? (I would guess the racers use Hewland or someone similar).
*Based on nothing but gut feel and the desire to back up my point
Ok, I seriously love the 1.0 ecoboost engine and want one (the 120hp one please) to put in an old ford KA I think it would be a hoot and better than the 1.8 zetec lump I was planning on putting in. (please ford, if you read this take pity, I can pay in fruit pastilles!)
However, power to capacity wise, I'm sure the Diahatsu Chirade Gtti was pretty impressive from a 1L turbo lump? 100 hp or something? (Please step in if you know the full figure) also, the old B16 honda lumps chucking out 150 from a 1.6 etc. Ford have done well but pre cat. we had some good stuff too!
However, power to capacity wise, I'm sure the Diahatsu Chirade Gtti was pretty impressive from a 1L turbo lump? 100 hp or something? (Please step in if you know the full figure) also, the old B16 honda lumps chucking out 150 from a 1.6 etc. Ford have done well but pre cat. we had some good stuff too!
Russ Bost said:
Apparently from the no. of hits I'm picking up on my website there is a link to me on here somewhere Tho' I've not found it yet???
Halfway down page 6, you'll see the linky - Cars look lovely. I'd be extremely impressed if you were doing more than 1,000 of these though and I reckon a decent and independently verified 'ring time would help your cause! Tho' I've not found it yet??? xRIEx said:
£50,200 inc VAT according to http://www.britishformulaford.co.uk/costs.htm
Thanks for the info. Bit exspneive at the moment buut hopefully chassis costs would come down over the next few years? Anyone know how tuneable the 1.6 engines are?doogz said:
The Wookie said:
An eagle eyed coworker has just spotted that the tyres being used aren't actually road legal... 
Tarmac rally tyres apparently!
Pretty sure they're still legal, no?Tarmac rally tyres apparently!
Stuff like Colway Formula 2 and Maxsport RB5 are road legal, aren't they?
StottyZr said:
Could be totally wrong here, but I thought rally cars had to be road legal
We thought the same initially, but they're listed on Demon Tweeks (admittedly not conclusive) as for Competition Use only. Another coworker has suggested that this might allow them to be road legal for competition use, but they don't appear to be 'road legal' as such...
Happy to be corrected of course!
ETA - Dunlop CR311's
Edited by The Wookie on Wednesday 5th September 16:51
The Wookie said:
StottyZr said:
Could be totally wrong here, but I thought rally cars had to be road legal
We thought the same initially, but they're listed on Demon Tweeks (admittedly not conclusive) as for Competition Use only. Another coworker has suggested that this might allow them to be road legal for competition use, but they don't appear to be 'road legal' as such...
Happy to be corrected of course!
ETA - Dunlop CR311's
Edited by The Wookie on Wednesday 5th September 16:51
http://www.mrtyremotorsport.co.uk/dunlop-cr311-his...
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