What is high mileage for a petrol + diesel when buying a car

[kambites]

powerandtorque said:

kambites said:

The average lifetime mileage of a car in the UK is something of the order of 100k miles. I doubt more than 1% reach 200k.

Do you have a source for that, or is that just a guess?

It certainly sounds very low to me, as I'd guess the average lifetime mileage would be in the region of 150k give or take - a bit higher for diesel saloons and a bit lower for city runabouts.

Certainly that fits with older cars I see advertised and the sorts of mileages I tend to see on cars that are in the scrapyard (other than a few low milage ones that have been crashed)

Not a current one. I remember finding a government published figure for it a few years ago, I think it was as part of the justification for the scrappage scheme. I think the mean average milage for cars being scrapped was something like 125k miles, with the median being more like 110k. Can't find the document now, though.

It sounds believable though - the mean average UK car covers about 10-12k miles a year, and what proportion of the cars you see on the road are over ten years old? It's certainly pretty low around here.


I certainly can't believe that the average mileage before a privately owned car gets scrapped is over 150k.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th September 13:31

[Chrisw666]

redweapon said:

80k and above you start to replace items.

This is what is wrong with car owners in the UK, summed up in a few short words. They think a car should be low mileage and should just last without needing worn out things replacing, I'm sure some people think their car is unreliable if the cambelt needs changing, the brakes (or breaks if you're illiterate) need replacing, or the headlight bulbs fail, infact I'd bet some people are dumbstruck to learn their tyres wear out eventually and faster than normal on stupidly big wheels.

[tim0409]

bakerstreet said:

How does a London Cab manage 500k in its lifetime then? Same trhing for London Ambulances. 150k of hard abuse before they are moved onto other duties.

He said mini-cabs, not black cabs.

[excel monkey]

kambites said:

powerandtorque said:

kambites said:

The average lifetime mileage of a car in the UK is something of the order of 100k miles. I doubt more than 1% reach 200k.

Do you have a source for that, or is that just a guess?

It certainly sounds very low to me, as I'd guess the average lifetime mileage would be in the region of 150k give or take - a bit higher for diesel saloons and a bit lower for city runabouts.

Certainly that fits with older cars I see advertised and the sorts of mileages I tend to see on cars that are in the scrapyard (other than a few low milage ones that have been crashed)

Not a current one. I remember finding a government published figure for it a few years ago, I think it was as part of the justification for the scrappage scheme. I think the mean average milage for cars being scrapped was something like 125k miles, with the median being more like 110k. Can't find the document now, though.

It sounds believable though - the mean average UK car covers about 10-12k miles a year, and what proportion of the cars you see on the road are over ten years old? It's certainly pretty low around here.


I certainly can't believe that the average mileage before a privately owned car gets scrapped is over 150k.

I tried looking for the same information and found this RAC report. No detail on average mileage when scrapped, but there are some interesting graphs showing that the average age of scrapped cars has fallen in the period from 1997-2007, due to increased scrap values and increasing repair costs.
http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac_foundation...

[Razzy Man]

The general idea is that mileage is almost irrelevant depending on certain things which were mentioned earlier.
The car's history is quite a major issue, what do you honestly thing is going to give? a 130k diesel golf that has been serviced every 8k miles and has proof of this or a 80k diesel that has part service history and no mention of a last service + service indicators blaring at you?.
The way the car was driven, my dad had a 120k 2006 astra that had done motorway journeys since new and it did still feel new it sailed to 160k and then sold it.If its being driven to the shops and back and the engine oil/coolant didnt even have a chance to warm up for every day of its life, its going to be likely to suffer.
It is true that some engines are just designed way, waaaaay better than others; having said that ive heard of notoriously crap engines that never bothered anyone because they've serviced them. Everything you generally hear is a mith or a one off occurance that left someone out of pocket.

[Dalto123]

The Porsche had 151,000 miles and was going strong until the crash. I reckon if you service and look after the car well, then it'll go on and on. For example I've seen a few 944's with 200k+ miles

[J4CKO]

I dont think the engines "oily bits" are what goes nowadays, big ends, rings, cams, bearings etc. think most are killed as people get the MOT come up and the car is worth £800 but needs a couple of shock absorbers (£200 fitted), 4 new tyres (£400), brakes (£250), a service (£150) and perhaps a couple of minor faults rectifying (£100), the engine still being ok and the bodywork not crumbling, perhaps just needing a good valet. So the car gets scrapped and the owners sign on the dotted for a new one at £120 a month. So cars get scrapped a lot for purely economic reasons and not major issues, a lot of the time the calculation is skewed due to high garage prices, if DIY'd it would be easily viable.

People nowadays have higher expectations, a new car used to be a dream, now it is a lot easier to attain, ok you never "own" it outright but you avoid the old car agro of MOT's and having to maintain it. Even some 17 year olds feel hard done by if they dont have a new car, far cry from the old sheds we ran, I used to feel like delivering an acceptance speech when my first car was awarded an MOT, and this wasnt that long ago, well, 24 years but it isnt the 1950's !


Think us older chaps (im 41) grew up with more of a "make do and mend" mentality, it is perhaps background related as well, my dad had a blue collar job and not on vast money so perhaps his work to maintain and care for our cars was the fact they were hard won, my inlaws had more money and they arent as fussy as it will be replaced after three years, they dent the car doing something stupid and are not all that bothered. I think the car now is seen as more disposable across the board, not saying it is good or bad, surely keeping old heaps on the road isnt a good thing but neither is thorwing away servicable ones.

[mk1matt]

My wife's Galaxy TDI has just ticked over 180k miles. It gets serviced whenever I can be bothered and gets driven very hard whenever I'm in it. It has been run low on oil a few times and once went about 10k overdue for a service! It was remapped (115 bhp to 145 ish)at 115k and is on the original clutch/DMF/turbo/injectors. This is one of the first "modern" diesels, as it's got the aforementioned DMF, plus the PD high pressure fuel pump and EGR.

The only issue is the the EGR is currently a bit clogged, so it's down on power and the economy is suffering slightly. When I can be bothered I'll either clean it or replace it with a bypass kit.

There's plenty of life in the old girl yet.

Conversely, my 80k Puma has started to use far more oil than it should (drinking it rather than leaking), so it's probably on its way out.

[Pontoneer]

kambites said:

"Reasonable" perhaps, but far from "normal". The average lifetime mileage of a car in the UK is something of the order of 100k miles. I doubt more than 1% reach 200k.

Cars can go on a very long time, but the punitive cost of parts combined with our extremely high rates of depreciation means that they very rarely do.

I've seen beyond 200K on pretty much all of my cars , and some considerably more .

I know lots of people with 200K+ cars , of all makes , so would say that notwithstanding accident damage many can and do go well beyond that mileage .

Taxis , rep mobiles , police cars and many others can rack these miles up in surprisingly little time .

[Pontoneer]

redweapon said:

The more miles its done the more worn out it will be, yes you can get low mileage cars that are buggered too. But in my experience the more miles its done the more it costs you to keep on the road. 80k and above you start to replace items. and there are plenty of lower mileage motors about, so why touch the high mileage stuff?

I would far rather buy a car that has covered 150K motorway miles , than miss Daisy's 10K car that has never been further than the hairdressers and never reached full operating temperature .

Under used cars will be more knackered than high mileage and well maintained ones .

I always buy cars with 100K + because , thanks to people like you , I can buy them cheaper . In the last 35 years I have bought many such cars and doubled , trebled , and in one case quadrupled that mileage without any major issues .

[ArmaghMan]

Seesure said:

100k is nothing these days, my daily turned that 5 years ago and back in June it turned 200k - still on the original engine, rings etc...

Have changed the odd sensors (MAFS, CPS, Lamda etc) and refreshed the suspension components but these are all pretty much classified as consumables...

V8 german engineering has stood the test of both time and hard usage...

I'm guessing high milage as a debate in the UK is due to the heady days of British Leyland / Austin Rover etc...where 60k miles was considered a lot!

Mine runs a bit warm as well!
Doesn't seem to bother them.

[jbi]

Alex said:

Have you had any transmission issues with your Jeep?

nope... shifts smooth as a baby's arse. In fact you can't even feel them, it's even smoother than my old LS400.

However my rear diff pinion bearing is on the way out and howling like a good un. I'm just going to drive it until a cheap 2nd hand axle comes along and swap it out.

[SuperHangOn]

J4CKO said:

I dont think the engines "oily bits" are what goes nowadays, big ends, rings, cams, bearings etc. think most are killed as people get the MOT come up and the car is worth £800 but needs a couple of shock absorbers (£200 fitted), 4 new tyres (£400), brakes (£250), a service (£150) and perhaps a couple of minor faults rectifying (£100), the engine still being ok and the bodywork not crumbling, perhaps just needing a good valet. So the car gets scrapped

This is the stage my Omega is nearing. Needs a set of boots and 4 wheel alignment (£450), a few suspension bits (£200) for the upcoming MOT and I would have to do a cambelt/water pump job (£300) if I was going to sink the money into an MOT. Looking at nearly a grand. Despite it being an excellent car, its going to be binned I'm afraid. Trouble is there are cars I like more for that sort of money.

[Pontoneer]

J4CKO said:

I dont think the engines "oily bits" are what goes nowadays, big ends, rings, cams, bearings etc. think most are killed as people get the MOT come up and the car is worth £800 but needs a couple of shock absorbers (£200 fitted), 4 new tyres (£400), brakes (£250), a service (£150) and perhaps a couple of minor faults rectifying (£100), the engine still being ok and the bodywork not crumbling, perhaps just needing a good valet. So the car gets scrapped and the owners sign on the dotted for a new one at £120 a month. So cars get scrapped a lot for purely economic reasons and not major issues, a lot of the time the calculation is skewed due to high garage prices, if DIY'd it would be easily viable.

People nowadays have higher expectations, a new car used to be a dream, now it is a lot easier to attain, ok you never "own" it outright but you avoid the old car agro of MOT's and having to maintain it. Even some 17 year olds feel hard done by if they dont have a new car, far cry from the old sheds we ran, I used to feel like delivering an acceptance speech when my first car was awarded an MOT, and this wasnt that long ago, well, 24 years but it isnt the 1950's !


Think us older chaps (im 41) grew up with more of a "make do and mend" mentality, it is perhaps background related as well, my dad had a blue collar job and not on vast money so perhaps his work to maintain and care for our cars was the fact they were hard won, my inlaws had more money and they arent as fussy as it will be replaced after three years, they dent the car doing something stupid and are not all that bothered. I think the car now is seen as more disposable across the board, not saying it is good or bad, surely keeping old heaps on the road isnt a good thing but neither is thorwing away servicable ones.

Agree with that .

I sometimes buy cars from the breakers , stick them in for MOT and find that it failed on a brake pipe . A job I can do myself for a tenner and half an hour of my time - yet someone scrapped a perfectly good car for that because they are too stupid or too lazy to learn to do the jobs themselves .

Actually , I'm quite glad there are people like that when it means I can pick up a nice car for , say , £150 and get several years use out of it .

My record so far is 30 years for my 1957 Mercedes bought in 1982 for £100 .

[Beeby]

SuperHangOn said:

J4CKO said:

I dont think the engines "oily bits" are what goes nowadays, big ends, rings, cams, bearings etc. think most are killed as people get the MOT come up and the car is worth £800 but needs a couple of shock absorbers (£200 fitted), 4 new tyres (£400), brakes (£250), a service (£150) and perhaps a couple of minor faults rectifying (£100), the engine still being ok and the bodywork not crumbling, perhaps just needing a good valet. So the car gets scrapped

This is the stage my Omega is nearing. Needs a set of boots and 4 wheel alignment (£450), a few suspension bits (£200) for the upcoming MOT and I would have to do a cambelt/water pump job (£300) if I was going to sink the money into an MOT. Looking at nearly a grand. Despite it being an excellent car, its going to be binned I'm afraid. Trouble is there are cars I like more for that sort of money.

I've just spent £300 on a cam belt and water pump change, £70 on a gearbox oil and brake fluid change and £100 on service. In the past year I have also spent £100 on two new tyres. All this on my 13 year old car worth £800.
It didn't even cross my mind to scrap it. The car is in excellent condition and the MOT online records show it has only ever failed on headlight adjustment and a incorrect colour indicator in the past 7 years or so. If you look after your car you won't get expensive surprises come MOT time. The things that I have spent money on are just normal consumable items as far as I am concerned. It hasn't done a lot of miles only 127k especially considering it is a diesel. I have set myself a target of getting my car to 20 years old. I would consider high mileage to be anything over 150k, but as long as the service history is there I would have no qualms about buying a high mileage car.

[Engineer1]

Alex said:

jbi said:

lets take the volvo 2.5 and jeep 4.0 I am currently driving. (both petrol)

At the moment both are around 100k miles and "just run in" IMO

I fully expect them to last well beyond 200k with regular oil changes.

As for modern diesels... wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Too much emissions related crap, expensive injectors and fuel pumps and very costly when they do go wrong.

Have you had any transmission issues with your Jeep?

I'd add look at the age of the engine as well not the car, my 04 plate car has the Merc 2.2 which unless I am mistaken is a mid 90's design. Not all modern diesel cars have modern engines, some of the Korean and other fringe manufacturers buy in someone else's diesel engine that is probably a generation or so behind the current engines.

I think the mileage obsession is as said by others due to the fact that a service book generally goes round once then on the second pass through they add a cam belt change that could cost a measurable meaningful percentage of the car's value. An MOT failure can cost enough that it's the straw that broke the camels back with regard to spending yet more money on the stty old car.

[jbi]

My buddies who are driving about in my old volvo 850 are complaining that it's going to be too expensive to put through it's next M.O.T

It needs brake disks/pads and an oil change.

Yet they are prepared to spend a grand on something else.

[Engineer1]

Don't forget for many the mileage or the MOT worry is a good excuse to juggle the finances do the man maths and buy something else. I tried the mileage trick on the Mrs and it didn't work so now I am waiting for the kiddy transport reasons, but a big bill at MOT and it could be swapped on, but given my car is just over 100K and I do 60miles a day I don't want a 100k car for my next car.

[jbi]

Engineer1 said:

I'd add look at the age of the engine as well not the car, my 04 plate car has the Merc 2.2 which unless I am mistaken is a mid 90's design. Not all modern diesel cars have modern engines, some of the Korean and other fringe manufacturers buy in someone else's diesel engine that is probably a generation or so behind the current engines.

I think the mileage obsession is as said by others due to the fact that a service book generally goes round once then on the second pass through they add a cam belt change that could cost a measurable meaningful percentage of the car's value. An MOT failure can cost enough that it's the straw that broke the camels back with regard to spending yet more money on the stty old car.

easy solution... buy a motor with a chain

I think it's fair to say we Brits don't know how lucky we have it.

The rest of the world would be fighting over the cars we are throwing away.

[Bradgate]

Seesure said:

I'm guessing high milage as a debate in the UK is due to the heady days of British Leyland / Austin Rover etc...where 60k miles was considered a lot!

Spot on. Many British motorists who are now in their 40s and above were brought up on appalling 1970's and 80s British Leyland rubbish such as Marinas, Allegros and Rover SD1s. In terms of reliability and build quality, Jaguar and Land Rover products weren't much better either. That is exactly why so many British people think 60k is high mileage.