RE: Tell Me I'm Wrong: BMW Z4 M Coupe

[LaurasOtherHalf]

6C4GTS said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I think it's a stunner, that's why I bought one. I like the way it handles too, it's a bit of craic compared to a Porsche cayman that's for sure.

Your 4M or the Cayman R - be honest....

At £16k, the Z4M. The caymanR is a much better car, but it's also more than 3 times the price

[pilchardthecat]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

6C4GTS said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I think it's a stunner, that's why I bought one. I like the way it handles too, it's a bit of craic compared to a Porsche cayman that's for sure.

Your 4M or the Cayman R - be honest....

At £16k, the Z4M. The caymanR is a much better car, but it's also more than 3 times the price

and it's "better" if you are a magazine writer, but not if your are a real owner

[6C4GTS]

pilchardthecat said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

6C4GTS said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I think it's a stunner, that's why I bought one. I like the way it handles too, it's a bit of craic compared to a Porsche cayman that's for sure.

Your 4M or the Cayman R - be honest....

At £16k, the Z4M. The caymanR is a much better car, but it's also more than 3 times the price

and it's "better" if you are a magazine writer, but not if your are a real owner

IIRC LOH was enthused enough to write a detailed and well received "post-icle" so maybe writers appreciate the R?

.....and why would Craig not be a real owner?

Edited by 6C4GTS on Friday 7th September 00:04

[paulmon]

I'm a bit late to the party on this thread and havent read every single post but there are two points in your article that I would like to touch on.

"There is no single dynamic measurement in which the Z4 M is superior to the E46 M3"

There is one dynamic where the M3 and Z4M feel worlds apart and its not measured in seconds or lb-ft. I dont know what this dynamic is called but its how it makes you feel when you get in and start driving. Its the feeling of being sat on the rear axles and the noise the exhaust makes when you apply even the smallest amount of throttle. You just dont get this in the M3 because you are sat on a lazy boy recliner which is too high up and too far away from the back end.

"Drive a Cayman S immediately afterwards, and the Z4 feels a little bit shambolic."
I understand what you are saying here but I drove a couple of Caymans before I bought the Z4MC and yes they are perfect, but this perfection is their undoing in my opinion. Ultimatley it just feels like a normal car when you are doing the day to shizzle. The Z4M feels special if you are going to the shops for some milk or tear arsing round a track.

[healntoe]

Like many owners I too tend to agree with “some” but also disagree with many of CH’s comments. I’m sure your observations come from a significantly wider pool of comparables than I could only wish to have. That being said, I’ve owned mine for over 5 years now and in that time have make a “FEW” tweaks (slippery slope this..), mostly addressing some of the –ves you mention. Mine runs Intrax coilovers, APs all round, Zost cans, amongst other things. The former addressing the ride to a more fast road/track orientated bias.

I do concur that the ride being a little harsh on bumpy roads but that’s it – I think the severity of this is exaggerated IMO. A few tweaks should see this fixed in no time: 1) decent springs such as eibach or full suspension, 2) ditch the OEM tyres (run flats!!) for PS2s, 3) good geo set up with some –ve camper put front. Now switch off the TC (not recommended in wet!!), hit the twisties and this car really comes alive.

When I was looking for my replacement car back in 2007, I test drove a few alternatives and TBO each left me cold. To this day I can recall my test drive, the masculine look as we walked towards it, the perfectly sized steering wheel (nice purposeful thickness) as you grip and drive off, it’s distinct engine note (unlike the e46 despite sharing the same engine – no high pitch rasp here sir) – I can go on and on…..……all this pretty much made me buy the car there and then!!!!.

If you want a DD with traffic/town commutes then this isn’t the car to have, it’s akin to putting say a 996 GT3 to the came task – conclusions/complaints will be the same (harsh, notchy gear change [fixed by ditching the CDV] , compact cabin). It’s a car that you have to get stuck into rather than the Cayman S which just flatters with it’s poise and balance. Get this right and it will be an event that fills you with joy each time to you go for a “drive”, likewise treat it with no respect and it will bite!!! That’s why we love it.

If I had to replace mine, I’d be hard pushed without going x3-4 their current values – a true unsung hero and bargain at that… CH pop over to www.Z4-Forum.com and I’m sure one of the sub 400 Z4MC owners can give you a taste of how a few hundred pounds can transform what in my view is a deliberate handicap, engineering wise into the car by BMW…

I’m obviously biased but check out a few hand picked vids…..

1) Z4M against an RS4 – nothing in it until well over 5th gear… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgw282Q602k
2) Z4M against 1M & E92 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEUxU4Wrttk
3) Z4M Vs CSL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG78-kMmYWU&pla...

Finally, bear in mind that the Z4MC comes with run flats in OEM guise and presumably sets its 8 min15 sec Ring time on these tyres – god only knows what a decent set of semi-slicks would have done.

Edited by healntoe on Friday 7th September 00:22

[Charlie Michael]

paulmon said:

I'm a bit late to the party on this thread and havent read every single post but there are two points in your article that I would like to touch on.

"There is no single dynamic measurement in which the Z4 M is superior to the E46 M3"

There is one dynamic where the M3 and Z4M feel worlds apart and its not measured in seconds or lb-ft. I dont know what this dynamic is called but its how it makes you feel when you get in and start driving. Its the feeling of being sat on the rear axles and the noise the exhaust makes when you apply even the smallest amount of throttle. You just dont get this in the M3 because you are sat on a lazy boy recliner which is too high up and too far away from the back end.

"Drive a Cayman S immediately afterwards, and the Z4 feels a little bit shambolic."
I understand what you are saying here but I drove a couple of Caymans before I bought the Z4MC and yes they are perfect, but this perfection is their undoing in my opinion. Ultimatley it just feels like a normal car when you are doing the day to shizzle. The Z4M feels special if you are going to the shops for some milk or tear arsing round a track.

+1 Completely agree ref the Cayman - The car feels too good too much of the time, whereas the Z4M can have a "bad" drive aswell as an amazing drive - low and behold a Germanic car showing character - rather than precision.

[Baryonyx]

I always preferred the look of the Z4M Coupe to that of the M Coupe. The M Coupe is hideous. I can understand the praise for the driving experience it offers but it's not pretty.

The Z4M on the other hand is quite pleasing. I would have liked a slightly more muscular look around the rear arches but ho hum. The biggest turn off for me is that steering wheel. Straight from the number 40 Volvo bus to Hellesdon.

[e30s50b30]

+1

Krikkit said:

That's lovely, but I'll take it in blue.

I can see why it might be a bit of a disappointment, but surely a few gentle tweaks with some dampers and you'd sort the slightly wayward suspension?

[original guvnor]

healntoe said:

Like many owners I too tend to agree with “some” but also disagree with many of CH’s comments. I’m sure your observations come from a significantly wider pool of comparables than I could only wish to have. That being said, I’ve owned mine for over 5 years now and in that time have make a “FEW” tweaks (slippery slope this..), mostly addressing some of the –ves you mention. Mine runs Intrax coilovers, APs all round, Zost cans, amongst other things. The former addressing the ride to a more fast road/track orientated bias.

I do concur that the ride being a little harsh on bumpy roads but that’s it – I think the severity of this is exaggerated IMO. A few tweaks should see this fixed in no time: 1) decent springs such as eibach or full suspension, 2) ditch the OEM tyres (run flats!!) for PS2s, 3) good geo set up with some –ve camper put front. Now switch off the TC (not recommended in wet!!), hit the twisties and this car really comes alive.

When I was looking for my replacement car back in 2007, I test drove a few alternatives and TBO each left me cold. To this day I can recall my test drive, the masculine look as we walked towards it, the perfectly sized steering wheel (nice purposeful thickness) as you grip and drive off, it’s distinct engine note (unlike the e46 despite sharing the same engine – no high pitch rasp here sir) – I can go on and on…..……all this pretty much made me buy the car there and then!!!!.

If you want a DD with traffic/town commutes then this isn’t the car to have, it’s akin to putting say a 996 GT3 to the came task – conclusions/complaints will be the same (harsh, notchy gear change [fixed by ditching the CDV] , compact cabin). It’s a car that you have to get stuck into rather than the Cayman S which just flatters with it’s poise and balance. Get this right and it will be an event that fills you with joy each time to you go for a “drive”, likewise treat it with no respect and it will bite!!! That’s why we love it.

If I had to replace mine, I’d be hard pushed without going x3-4 their current values – a true unsung hero and bargain at that… CH pop over to www.Z4-Forum.com and I’m sure one of the sub 400 Z4MC owners can give you a taste of how a few hundred pounds can transform what in my view is a deliberate handicap, engineering wise into the car by BMW…

I’m obviously biased but check out a few hand picked vids…..

1) Z4M against an RS4 – nothing in it until well over 5th gear… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgw282Q602k
2) Z4M against 1M & E92 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEUxU4Wrttk
3) Z4M Vs CSL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG78-kMmYWU&pla...

Finally, bear in mind that the Z4MC comes with run flats in OEM guise and presumably sets its 8 min15 sec Ring time on these tyres – god only knows what a decent set of semi-slicks would have done.

Edited by healntoe on Friday 7th September 00:22

Agree with just about all of this - but no run flats as OEM on the M.

[900T-R]

Am I the only one, then, who found the E46 M3 slighly underwhelming at the time? At least the Z4MC has the intimacy that comes with its architecture on its side, the M3 feels big, distant and cumbersome in comparison. Also, the early M3 example I drove had much the same traits as CH describes - chiefly a surprising amount of initial understeer until the rear tyres very suddendly break loose at the slightest provocation - can be as little as a bump in the road that doesn't interfere with traction in any bother car I'm driving - and strangley felt a lot better contained in the Z4MC I drove years later.

Also, the S54 felt a fair bit more gutsy in the smaller car.

[Daniel1]

Having driven a friends Z4MC a few of times and owned a Z4, it's simply the car feels like an event when ever you drive it. The TVR comparison is quite a legitimate one. The car feels naughty and a handful even at slow speeds. There is a place for pure, brilliant car dynamics and using those to scythe up a road and the Z4M is not it. But there is also a place for a car that is dynamically flawed but with heavy steering, stiff clutch, sitting almost literally on top of the rear axle with one of the best engines ever made howling behind your ear. Thank heavens for the Z4M.

[bennyboysvuk]

I drove an E46 M3 daily for 3 years (with DSC off) and having now got a Z4MR, feel that the M3 had superior handling (though the geo was set up to be as close to the CSL as possible). I believe there is an area just over the traction limits where you can slither a car around, with it sliding very neatly and going very quickly and in the M3, this area is much wider than it is in the Z4MR.

This, I believe, is all adding fuel to Chris' fire, so what I will say is that the M3 cannot match the Z4MR as an event and this is the reason why I purchased my one. It is unruly and a bit of a wild ride at times, but this is it's charm and I love it for that.

[scz4]

Z4M didn't come with run flats as various people above have mentioned!! The rest of the Z4 range did.

[Charlie Michael]

scz4 said:

Z4M didn't come with run flats as various people above have mentioned!! The rest of the Z4 range did.

Plus it was the only model that had hydraulic steering.

[sege]

healntoe said:

Now switch off the TC (not recommended in wet!!)

So is the car only any good in the dry? Why not is switching TC off in the wet not recommended? Because it's snappy, crude, and not progressive? Not much of a plus point really is it...?

healntoe said:

(nice purposeful thickness) as you grip

Hehe!

[Chr1sch]

I think they look great with a set of csl's on however Jason Plato tore it to bits too, an he and Chris are both great drivers, they can't both be wrong...

Agreed I would rather have an M3...

[dapearson]

Yawn. Getting bored of these threads now.

Harris says he doesn't like a car very much (or not in comparison to something "better"). Then follows a few hundred replies about whether he's right or not.

[Diderot]

Chr1sch said:

I think they look great with a set of csl's on however Jason Plato tore it to bits too, an he and Chris are both great drivers, they can't both be wrong...

Agreed I would rather have an M3...

Where was that? Plato seems to really like the MR and AFAIK he only tested the 3.0si vs the TT3.2 on 5th Gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V359S6Hae3U&fea...

[Oddball RS]

This artcile comes down to everyday owner vs journo, wants and needs are very different.

[Captain Muppet]

dapearson said:

Yawn. Getting bored of these threads now.

Harris says he doesn't like a car very much (or not in comparison to something "better"). Then follows a few hundred replies about whether he's right or not.

All threads are like this. An OP then people either agreeing or disagreeing.

If you are bored of poorly written discussions of people's biased opinions you are bored of forums.
Which is why I often take several years off from PH.