RE: Chris Harris video: Panamera Diesel

[Charlie Michael]

I like the Panamera for its distinctive looks and for the interior. I've never driven one so can't comment on that but it did look amazingly flat round the bends.

For what the car offers, if I were in the market for a four door saloon car with a bit of presence, and in that sort of price band, the Panamera diesel would get my money.

For now i'll just enjoy 20mpg from my Z4M

[pilchardthecat]

So he doesn't like the Z4M, but does like a Porsche diesel.

That's useful info for placing Harris' views in an appropriate context.

[shoestring7]

Much as I like the Panamera for meeting family + motorway slog driving duties in a Porsche package, it really does make the Cayenne (mechanically very similar) look very good value.

The new V8 diesel Cayenne will be around £55k (V6 is £47k) vs the £62k of the V6 PanAm (and the Cayenne also has 5 seats).

SS7

[Chris Harris]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Not at all, I happen to agree with most of your sentiments on the Z4M but I'm shallow enough to admit that I bought the car as I think it looks stunning & sounds great

But seeing as you're following this thread here how about answering my criticism on the piece we're discussing?

Ok you're driving one (for free?) as a daily, but rather than you simply having a fun day out on the companies expenses would a comparison test not have shone more light on the panamera? As you say, many petrol heads hate it simply for what it is, but had the video actually shown us why you think it's so great against some competition it might have had more merit.

Instead of ooh look at me getting to drive as fast as I like on a closed circuit in a free car.

Yep, Porsche owns the car. But that makes no difference.

Had nothing to do with 'as fast as I like' on a closed circuit. Instead it was drawing some meaningful data (you incorrectly stated 530d, I said 535d) on the Panam. No intention of doing a group test because that wasn't the idea. The conceit is clearly laid out in the words here, and in the video: irrespective of what's out there, is the car fast enough? Others may be faster, but that wasn't what I set out to clarify. People looking to buy Panameras are probably not looking at 5-series and A6s.

Think the video clearly explains why I think the car is very good. I gave it 3 stars (out of 5) on the launch for EVO, and gave it a kicking for being so much slower, on paper, than cheaper cars from other German brands. Turns out in everyday driving you simply don't ever feel short-changed for straight-line grunt. I find that very surprising.

Thought shots of a supposedly underpowered diesel engined saloon car vapourising its rear rubber rather nicely countered such accusations. If the subtlety was lost on you, I apologise. And, as we all, know, the internet loves oversteer videos.

I can't prove that the car will do 157mph on the flat on a UK motorway, nor can I do those acceleration runs in controlled conditions. That's what proving grounds are for. I'll pass on your comments about us having a jolly on expenses to Neil, who worked two 18 hour days to shoot and edit that video in time for Wednesday night.

Totally understand if you don't like the car or the video. Or me. Just wish you could express yourself in less aggressive terms. It's a video, about a car, which cost you nothing to watch - can't be that bad.

[donkis2032]

First post (I think) but long time lurker. The bashing of Harris is getting massively boring.

A) I don't care how he pays for his cars, its none of my business
B) Chuntering out the same old tired line about being 'bought' by the car companies is dull. Think of something new rather than being a keyboard hero and repeating the same nonsense you've heard elsewhere.

For the record I am a Harris Fanboi, I've enjoyed all his videos and I'll continue to do so. Have you seen some of the other car related videos on 'The Internet'? They're rubbish, proper rubbish and not worth bothering with. These vids have a decent budget, Harris presenting and it's better than repeats on Dave.

LaurasOtherHalf said:

As you say, many petrol heads hate it simply for what it is

Do they? Do they really? To me, a 'true petrol head' (what a gash term) can see the merit in any vehicle. It might no necessarily be what they need, or can see a use for but Porsche have built a car that satisfies a segment in the market previously taken by dull BMW's, Audi's and Mercs. Face it, people want cars that will do a million MPG yet still look nice and drive well. I've got a car with the same engine as this and its no fun to drive and definitely isn't quick. If I needed a diseasel that was fun, comfy and looked decent I'd take one of these over a 535d any day of the week.

And I'm not the only one - the waiting list for a diesel Cayenne last time I checked was around 8 months....this will be the same...

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Instead of ooh look at me getting to drive as fast as I like on a closed circuit in a free car.

Yeah, so that'll be the green eyed monster then...

Grow up....

[Rawwr]

Chris Harris said:

The best all-round sports machine for daily use of the past decade is.....not a Porsche. It's an E46 M3

I thought you would've plumped for the slightly softer, mechanically simpler E39 M5. I've never driven a manual E46 M3 but I did have the dubious pleasure of driving an SMG and couldn't get on with it at all; the automotive equivalent of sliding a cat turd into a cream eclair.

[Donkey62]

Same old PH know it all paper procrastinators, no wonder car manufactures ignore the public by large. It's like the first Boxster all over again not being a proper Porsche.....

[ScoobieWRX]

My partner is in an S-Type Diesel Jag that will be ready for chopping in next year. Been wondering where to go next in terms of a brand new diesel that offers decent grunt, mpg, comfort, quiet ride and some luxury not to mention some sporting prowess and will easily handle 30,000 miles a year without breaking down.

Audi...no thanks and there are millions of the bloody things. Diesel engines are great but looks wise it's same ole same ole whichever model you buy. Same for BMW, awesome diesel engines again but never really liked either much anyway. Not interested in Jap luxury as it's just not the same as the jag. Don't do Volvo, Ford, Vauxhall etc... etc... Another Jag?? Maybe, but it would have to be an XF and we were hoping to try something else.

Never been into Porsche much either but this Panamera looks pretty damn good, and it's diesel. Clearly it drives well, great mpg for a V6d, looks great, and i dare say is a pretty safe to be in a crash. I've no doubt it crunches the miles effortlessly and will be a fantastic motorway/intercontinental cruiser which is exactly what she needs.

This is definitely the kind of vehicle she could happily do some serious mileage in and very worth while considering over something like an XF. I hope the price isn't too silly. I'll be watching this car into next year with interest.

[Marf]

pilchardthecat said:

So he doesn't like the Z4M, but does like a Porsche diesel.

That's useful info for placing Harris' views in an appropriate context.

What context might that be?

PH really is full of some contrary ar-eholes these days.

[vinnie83]

jbi said:

Sorry Chris... but a Toyota Camry will do the 1/4 mile in 14.1 seconds.

Do you really want to pull up next to a boring family saloon in your Porsche, knowing you can't keep up with it?

Edited by jbi on Thursday 13th September 09:55

My cousins friend has a civic that will do the 1/4 quicker than my turbo... I really wouldn't feel any shame in pulling alongside in my car.

I think you're very much missing the point in this car.

[jbi]

vinnie83 said:

My cousins friend has a civic that will do the 1/4 quicker than my turbo... I really wouldn't feel any shame in pulling alongside in my car.

I think you're very much missing the point in this car.

Porsche comfort, refinement and design in a daily driver without the performance?

Personally... if I buy a Porsche I would want the performance to go with it, otherwise I would find myself in a jaguar or similar "adequate" car.

I suppose it really depends on what the Porsche brand means to you.

[Marf]

jbi said:

I suppose it really depends on what the Porsche brand means to you.

And as CH repeatedly said in the video, it depends what "fast" means to you. 6s to 60, 155mph and capable of 40mpg, wrapped up in a Porsche designed saloon car. Seems fair enough to me for a ruddy diesel.

[Fire99]

Marf said:

6s to 60,

Nearer 7 to be fair (and that's going for it)

Good for a hatchback but certainly not good enough for a £70k Porsche that Just sits 4.

[jbi]

Marf said:

And as CH repeatedly said in the video, it depends what "fast" means to you. 6s to 60, 155mph and capable of 40mpg, wrapped up in a Porsche designed saloon car. Seems fair enough to me for a ruddy diesel.

but it's not fast though is it?

"for a diesel" is irrelevant

[tyrewrecker]

Marf said:

What context might that be?

PH really is full of some contrary ar-eholes these days.

This. WTF. tts spoiling a good thread/many good threads. He he say: "I hate Z4M"? No, I don't think he did.

[Niffty951]

I guess the iron block would just be too big and heavy and the corporate image profile would never swallow it ..but I would love to see this engine in the fly weight entry model they are releasing soon.

Super cheap motoring from Porsche that would match the economy levels but re-define the speed boundaries of entry level roadsters

[Rawwr]

jbi said:

but it's not fast though is it?

Yes, it is fast. Exactly what defines 'fast' these days that excludes the Panamera Diesel?

[tyrewrecker]

Fire99 said:

Nearer 7 to be fair (and that's going for it)

Good for a hatchback but certainly not good enough for a £70k Porsche that Just sits 4.

Nearer to 6.5, to be fair. What else would you want from it?

[adam5]

Anyone commenting on this forum must possess a geniune love for cars, but I do get concerned sometimes that the affection can become misguided when it comes to swatting cars simply because they don't meet a dubious notion of 'pistonheadedness'.

Plainly that's not the view of pistonheads the site, nor the majority of its members or cars like the Panamera D wouldn't be featured.

I dare say that Porsche would love to make exclusively snarling beasts that feature only the letters GT on their rump, but they have to balance it with the needs of their customer base who have their own practical considerations, and global aggregate pollution requirements.

The idea that fun and excitement can be packaged into a daily useable car is to be applauded...and to be credited particularly at a time when Government and EU decisions will likely make owning the aforementioned snarling beasts more and more difficult in the future.

I should also point out that the fact that Porsche have given Chris a car to use for an extended period of time does not oblige him to like the thing, but merely to report back with his findings.

[vinnie83]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I'm sure he mentioned that it was almost as fast as the bench marque, the 530d? Did I get that correct? (I may have drifter off).

So wow, we get a video of mr harris waxing lyrical about how you get a faster, cheaper car but the Porsche is still magnificent so we won't even test it against the other car to let you know if subjectively its worth the extra money.

So you feel every expensive car is a waste if there is a faster and cheaper alternative?

By your reasoning, the 458 is a waste as the 997 turbo S is a hell of a lot cheaper, and faster too.

This wasn't comparing the Panamera against its rivals, it was showing that the car isn't lacking in power, and discussing what the car is like.

Not to mention that the 5 series is nowhere near as good as this car in build quality, handling, interior etc.

Having just had a quick play on the BMW configurator, my 535d came to £65,500.... not exactly a huge difference is there?