RE: Chris Harris video: Panamera Diesel
Discussion
tyrewrecker said:
Nearer to 6.5, to be fair. What else would you want from it?
From recollection, it books at 6.8 so 7 seconds on a less than perfect road surface and a full tank of 'oily stuff' is where it's at.What else would I want from a £70,000 Porsche??? A whole lot more to be honest.
Fire99 said:
From recollection, it books at 6.8 so 7 seconds on a less than perfect road surface and a full tank of 'oily stuff' is where it's at.
What else would I want from a £70,000 Porsche??? A whole lot more to be honest.
Harris managed a smidge under 6.6What else would I want from a £70,000 Porsche??? A whole lot more to be honest.
A whole lot more such as?
tyrewrecker said:
Harris managed a smidge under 6.6
Exactly.. "Managed". Near Optimal conditions one would say.Well lets look at the facts. A BMW 530d SE (yes the 530) books at a touch over £38k. It's faster and Roomier (Seats 5) than the Porsche and I doubt it's missing much in the dynamics department. For a saving of near £30k.
I think the more important question is what does this Porsche have over the BMW that's worth an Extra £30k+ ??
And the answer in my book... Not Enough!! Not Enough by a long shot.
jbi said:
but it's not fast though is it?
I dunno, is it? You're trying to apply a totally subjective viewpoint and pass it off as an objective measure. Ergo I don't ascribe any value to "it's not fast though, is it?". 
tyrewrecker said:
Marf said:
What context might that be?
PH really is full of some contrary ar-eholes these days.
This. WTF. tPH really is full of some contrary ar-eholes these days.
ts spoiling a good thread/many good threads. He he say: "I hate Z4M"? No, I don't think he did. Anyway, I'll leave the PH Arbitrary Contrarians to it and lament the demise of a once great forum as it descends into abject
Edited by Marf on Thursday 13th September 12:18
Fire99 said:
Exactly.. "Managed". Near Optimal conditions one would say.
Well lets look at the facts. A BMW 530d SE (yes the 530) books at a touch over £38k. It's faster and Roomier (Seats 5) than the Porsche and I doubt it's missing much in the dynamics department. For a saving of near £30k.
I think the more important question is what does this Porsche have over the BMW that's worth an Extra £30k+ ??
And the answer in my book... Not Enough!! Not Enough by a long shot.
The cabin is in a different league for trim quality and (subjective to me) the way it looks.Well lets look at the facts. A BMW 530d SE (yes the 530) books at a touch over £38k. It's faster and Roomier (Seats 5) than the Porsche and I doubt it's missing much in the dynamics department. For a saving of near £30k.
I think the more important question is what does this Porsche have over the BMW that's worth an Extra £30k+ ??
And the answer in my book... Not Enough!! Not Enough by a long shot.
New 5 is great, but this has a better handling/ride balance, I think.
For long, stress-free drives this kills anything 5-Series/E-Class sized. And I mean kills.
Not many people will be looking at a 530d and a Panam. Your quoted £30k difference is way wide of the mark: get a 535d up to the same spec as one of these and it's nearer £10k.
My last car was an XF-S. As tested it was £53k. Smidge quicker, but not in any way that would make a difference on the road. In every other area, bar the silly 4-seat thing, the Panam is head 'n shoulders.
For me 0-100 in mid 15s, well over 150 (quicker than my E28 M5) and 45mpg on a long run is compelling.
In terms of fast enough - of course it is.... 0-60 - who cares... 0-100 really?
When you are pootling behind the Kia at 45 on your local A road, its got more than enough poke to pass and anything above a ton and you are heading for a ban...
I dont feel the need to "race" numpties, or worry that in perfect conditions their car may accelerate a little faster, but just want to have a good time whilst getting about.
RE the anger we see in the forums (it stops me posting on many items) - The videos are great free content, and let's not encourage CH to go and do something else by getting overly wound up and personal... I think it's brave to have your work critiqued weekly by thousands of people, publicly, who exhibit the full spectrum of intellect, knowledge and manners.
Wahey haven't I turned into the most quoted monkey spanker today?! 
Fair play to mr harris for replying to the comments, in fact the one above (to me) is more interesting than the entire video that was shot & linked for this thread.
I'm neither Chris Harris, Porsche or Pistonheads fanboy nor hater. But, it's a forum & the whole point of these things is to create a discussion, & yet another Chris Harris Porsche piece is bound to draw attention from people who think "really, do we honestly need another story on how this guy thinks Porsches are better than everything else?" (I'm setting you up for the Porsche steering feel article here).
I'm not sure what was so aggressive in my previous posts that you took exception to, but I stand by my comments.
Pointless video, the equivalent of quoting performance stats to "prove" your car is the best in the pub car park.
Without putting the porsches competitors through the same exercise I fail to see what the video shows, apart from the obvious it's almost as fast as a 535d & you can drift it on a proving ground?
As an aside, I do actually like a lot of your stuff-I'd love to see more on your 599 & how a relatively ordinary bloke can afford to run one.
Fair play to mr harris for replying to the comments, in fact the one above (to me) is more interesting than the entire video that was shot & linked for this thread.
I'm neither Chris Harris, Porsche or Pistonheads fanboy nor hater. But, it's a forum & the whole point of these things is to create a discussion, & yet another Chris Harris Porsche piece is bound to draw attention from people who think "really, do we honestly need another story on how this guy thinks Porsches are better than everything else?" (I'm setting you up for the Porsche steering feel article here).
I'm not sure what was so aggressive in my previous posts that you took exception to, but I stand by my comments.
Pointless video, the equivalent of quoting performance stats to "prove" your car is the best in the pub car park.
Without putting the porsches competitors through the same exercise I fail to see what the video shows, apart from the obvious it's almost as fast as a 535d & you can drift it on a proving ground?
As an aside, I do actually like a lot of your stuff-I'd love to see more on your 599 & how a relatively ordinary bloke can afford to run one.
Some of the comments in this thread sadden me. Sure this car isnt a super-car, but in the real world it is plenty fast enough, and could easily see you losing your licence. Too many keyboard warriors who havent even sat in the car, let alone driven it.
It's getting increasingly difficult to explore even half of the performance of the average car in the UK given the traffic, cameras and so on.
IMHO I like the Panamera - as Chris says, it's all a personal taste; I like the fact it is different and has presence.
As for the keyboard warriors who say a Porsche cant have a Diesel engine; get over yourselves. The susses of this and other "not a Porsche" products are the reason Porsche is so profitable and can also give us the their supercars and track focussed cars.
There is also a lot more to it than just the car; my wife has been looking at a comfortable, swift, safe, quality diesel car to do a reasonable annual mileage.
We tried BMW and Mercedes (We have two BMW's at the moment), and neither seemed remotely hungry for business - Mercedes were verging on pathetic - 6 dealers visited and after 2 months not even a test drive.
Sadly the Panamera was a little long for our garage - and a little over budget, but we like the new Cayenne with the same Diesel engine, and to cut a long story short, 2 weeks after a test drive we have an order placed, and the car will be here in about 6 weeks.
The Cayenne isnt quite the same car, but it's the same engine - plenty quick enough - and a similar beautifully crafted interior. We spend a lot of time in our cars, why not do it in something engineered by Porsche AND have something with a 700 mile range and decent economy.. Can't wait.
It's getting increasingly difficult to explore even half of the performance of the average car in the UK given the traffic, cameras and so on.
IMHO I like the Panamera - as Chris says, it's all a personal taste; I like the fact it is different and has presence.
As for the keyboard warriors who say a Porsche cant have a Diesel engine; get over yourselves. The susses of this and other "not a Porsche" products are the reason Porsche is so profitable and can also give us the their supercars and track focussed cars.
There is also a lot more to it than just the car; my wife has been looking at a comfortable, swift, safe, quality diesel car to do a reasonable annual mileage.
We tried BMW and Mercedes (We have two BMW's at the moment), and neither seemed remotely hungry for business - Mercedes were verging on pathetic - 6 dealers visited and after 2 months not even a test drive.
Sadly the Panamera was a little long for our garage - and a little over budget, but we like the new Cayenne with the same Diesel engine, and to cut a long story short, 2 weeks after a test drive we have an order placed, and the car will be here in about 6 weeks.
The Cayenne isnt quite the same car, but it's the same engine - plenty quick enough - and a similar beautifully crafted interior. We spend a lot of time in our cars, why not do it in something engineered by Porsche AND have something with a 700 mile range and decent economy.. Can't wait.
Ray Singh said:
Porsche was forced to make this car to attract customers. Personally, I think that they have done a good job as people want this type of car and want to have high mpg to keep costs down.
+1. The thing with Porsche, is that they do engineer cars exceedingly well, so even if they feel they have to make a four door saloon with a diesel engine to satisfy demand they'll do very well.
I didn't like the looks on this in the same way I don't get too excited about the Cayanne, but both have grown on me. The interiors are fantastic and I could see myself living with both and enjoying the ownership.
Being a petrol head, I'd be on a GT3 before any of these, but maybe one day if I have sprogs, it might suddenly become appealing.
Some people have been bang out of order here. Chris has done a pretty good job of showing those who think it's too slow that they're wrong. In reality, people cope with half that power every day so it's clearly enough. Whether that's what you'd expect from a 70k porsche is another matter, but it's clearly a brilliant all rounder
jbi said:
Personally... if I buy a Porsche I would want the performance to go with it, otherwise I would find myself in a jaguar or similar "adequate" car.
I suppose it really depends on what the Porsche brand means to you.
Over many decades the Porsche "brand" has happily been selling cars such as the 356, 912, 914, 924 and 2.5 Boxster. None of which were blisteringly fast supercars. I'm not sure why there's a view that anything "slow" isn't a real Porsche and is going against their supposed history of only making ultra high performance cars.I suppose it really depends on what the Porsche brand means to you.
Rawwr said:
Don't take this as snarky but I'd be genuinely interested to hear what Porsches Chris doesn't like. Maybe a little 924? 996 C4?
He did not like a certain 997 GTS4 PDK Cabriolet....Just on the Diesel "thing", I have lost count how many posts there have been in years gone by talking up the chipped BMW 335D as some sort of second dawning of the supercar (a slight exaggeration on my part), so i think some of the negative posts on the Panny smack of double standards.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Thursday 13th September 13:42
david_b said:
jbi said:
Personally... if I buy a Porsche I would want the performance to go with it, otherwise I would find myself in a jaguar or similar "adequate" car.
I suppose it really depends on what the Porsche brand means to you.
Over many decades the Porsche "brand" has happily been selling cars such as the 356, 912, 914, 924 and 2.5 Boxster. None of which were blisteringly fast supercars. I'm not sure why there's a view that anything "slow" isn't a real Porsche and is going against their supposed history of only making ultra high performance cars.I suppose it really depends on what the Porsche brand means to you.
In this context the PanAm D is entirely consistent with the Porscvhe brand.
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