RE: Chris Harris video: Panamera Diesel
Discussion
This isn't going to help a big deal, but what the hell, there are some really obscene and rather mindless comments on this thread. This won't really change the landscape much...
I think the argument about the comparison between the Panamera and 5 series has been made into a bit of dogs dinner...
The similarities for me are that they both have 4 wheels, are German, and have 3l diesel engines. Technically you can draw the two together, but realistically so far removed.
In the real world, the buyer for the Panamera is not looking at the 5 series. The Porsche is so far ahead if you look at the interior, buying experience, badge, etc. of the BMW that it is almost like comparing buying a top spec 7 series to a Rolls Royce. They are two different animals, appealing to two different buyers looking for very different qualities.
When considering the Panamera, it never occurred to me that I should be looking at the 5 series, maybe the Gran Coupe would be more of a comparison... Just a thought.
Regardless, diesels are here to stay and the bigger the variety the better in my book. What's wrong with choice between fuels, brands, models, classes?! I'm not too fussed about what Chris or other journos say when they review a car. Their opinion is noted and its entertaining to watch/read, but the decision lies with me, the buyer. I would recommend everyone just go out and drive the cars. Test drive them, you will be welcomed 9 out of 10 times by all the major manufacturers if you show some respect and seriousness when asking for a test drive.
Don't argue with someone who has driven a car and reported his feelings about it.
MAKE YOUR OWN MINDS UP!
You're not all brain dead zombies marching to the beat of a journalists drum are you?
I think the argument about the comparison between the Panamera and 5 series has been made into a bit of dogs dinner...
The similarities for me are that they both have 4 wheels, are German, and have 3l diesel engines. Technically you can draw the two together, but realistically so far removed.
In the real world, the buyer for the Panamera is not looking at the 5 series. The Porsche is so far ahead if you look at the interior, buying experience, badge, etc. of the BMW that it is almost like comparing buying a top spec 7 series to a Rolls Royce. They are two different animals, appealing to two different buyers looking for very different qualities.
When considering the Panamera, it never occurred to me that I should be looking at the 5 series, maybe the Gran Coupe would be more of a comparison... Just a thought.
Regardless, diesels are here to stay and the bigger the variety the better in my book. What's wrong with choice between fuels, brands, models, classes?! I'm not too fussed about what Chris or other journos say when they review a car. Their opinion is noted and its entertaining to watch/read, but the decision lies with me, the buyer. I would recommend everyone just go out and drive the cars. Test drive them, you will be welcomed 9 out of 10 times by all the major manufacturers if you show some respect and seriousness when asking for a test drive.
Don't argue with someone who has driven a car and reported his feelings about it.
MAKE YOUR OWN MINDS UP!
You're not all brain dead zombies marching to the beat of a journalists drum are you?
Marf said:
pilchardthecat said:
So he doesn't like the Z4M, but does like a Porsche diesel.
That's useful info for placing Harris' views in an appropriate context.
What context might that be? That's useful info for placing Harris' views in an appropriate context.
PH really is full of some contrary ar-eholes these days.
Contrary is therefore the right word - Harris is a contra-indicator, from my perspective.
Chris Harris said:
Don't understand. You make stark allegations, I ask you to back them-up, you send a funny-face.
Ignore him Chris, the vast majority of us respect your views and believe them to be the most honest of current motoring journalists. We may not necessarily agree with everything you say (the Panamera is pug ugly and you do need an eye test for instance), but don't question for a moment the sincerity of your opinion. In any case, for anyone to suggest that a motoring journalist needs to curry favour with manufacturers shows that they don't really understand the relationship that exists between them. I have a mate that works in automotive PR and almost without exception the journalists get away with appalling behaviour and treat the manufacurers representatives like s
t on the bottom of their shoe. They get away with this because the manufacturers don't want to offend them in case they write anything bad about them, and they take advantage of that fact. (This has never been said about Chris BTW, but it has been said of another high profile Haymarket contributor)jbi said:
vinnie83 said:
My cousins friend has a civic that will do the 1/4 quicker than my turbo... I really wouldn't feel any shame in pulling alongside in my car.
I think you're very much missing the point in this car.
Porsche comfort, refinement and design in a daily driver without the performance?I think you're very much missing the point in this car.
Personally... if I buy a Porsche I would want the performance to go with it, otherwise I would find myself in a jaguar or similar "adequate" car.
I suppose it really depends on what the Porsche brand means to you.
My 911 turbo is plenty quick enough that I wont feel silly near a kitted up civic that's faster.
In a Panamera I wouldn't feel silly near a slightly faster car either. In fact, I didn't when I had one for a few days.
I think Chris does well in this (and in the GT86 coverage) to prod the posturing about how much straight line go one actually needs to enjoy driving a road car. Acceleration is fun, no denying it, but it's a cheap thrill and the novelty wears off. A compulsive need to have the capacity to out-accelerate other road users seems to me to be evidence of either an attitude to driving which needs looking at or of some kind of personality disorder.
Marf said:
PH really is full of some contrary ar-eholes these days.
It's not PH it's the internet generally. Just about any forum or internet comments attract people who act like keyboard warriors and don't care who they offend. I think Chris, you should not bother getting drawn into a debate with such idiots - they should just be ignored - totally. I saw in someone's signature on E90Post forum the following sage advice:
"Never argue with an idiot on the internet. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
wibblebrain said:
It's not PH it's the internet generally. Just about any forum or internet comments attract people who act like keyboard warriors and don't care who they offend. I think Chris, you should not bother getting drawn into a debate with such idiots - they should just be ignored - totally.
I saw in someone's signature on E90Post forum the following sage advice:
"Never argue with an idiot on the internet. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
I agree with you partly, youtube is a prime example of this, however I find that forums, especially one make forums are far more conducive to friendly discourse rather than the automatically combative stance that seems to be plaguing PH of late(well the last couple of years say). I saw in someone's signature on E90Post forum the following sage advice:
"Never argue with an idiot on the internet. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Loved the vid and the editorial and I have to say I am similarly baffled about this pissing contest over numbers, this is a real world DERV and I for one have never seen a panam clocking more than about 80 on UK roads
I have friends moving from RR Sports to these for their daily drivers as they are so much more refined and genteel, but powerful if you need them to be.
Just wish I could afford one (used of course) but there is no chance of that with the Conti killing my finances lol!
Keep up the cracking work Chris, your vids are a nice breeze of fresh air
I have friends moving from RR Sports to these for their daily drivers as they are so much more refined and genteel, but powerful if you need them to be.
Just wish I could afford one (used of course) but there is no chance of that with the Conti killing my finances lol!
Keep up the cracking work Chris, your vids are a nice breeze of fresh air
Chris, do you not think that because you've had the car for a few months that you've actually grown to like it, rather than it actually being a good car? For example, do you not think if you had to drive any old barge you would in fact begin to like it over time?
I personally don't disagree that the panamera is a good car. The interior is magnificent and the exterior I like too, in the right colour, wheels etc. However, is the price tag justified or is it just the porsche badge which makes it desirable. If it said 'Hyundai' on the front would you find it as desirable or is your affection for the Porsche brand maybe tainting your views slightly?
I personally don't disagree that the panamera is a good car. The interior is magnificent and the exterior I like too, in the right colour, wheels etc. However, is the price tag justified or is it just the porsche badge which makes it desirable. If it said 'Hyundai' on the front would you find it as desirable or is your affection for the Porsche brand maybe tainting your views slightly?
Carlique said:
Chris, do you not think that because you've had the car for a few months that you've actually grown to like it, rather than it actually being a good car? For example, do you not think if you had to drive any old barge you would in fact begin to like it over time?
Why would that make his opinion any less relevant? Surely growing to like something over time speaks positively about the ownership experience, which really is all that matters?Marf said:
Why would that make his opinion any less relevant? Surely growing to like something over time speaks positively about the ownership experience, which really is all that matters?
I mean it in the sense of, do you not find that whatever you drive, you learn to love it. It could be a £500 old punto from a scrap yard, but after a few months of driving it, you will learn to love it.So what I'm tying to say is, Is it actually a good car? or have you forced yourself to like it? Because as stated, first impressions were not great.
I recently got to drive one of these on some Sussex roads, and I loved it! Thought it looked very mean in black, I love the interior, the low slung driving position, can't think of many cars I'd rather be the rear seat passenger in, and for such a big car, with a diesel, I was very impressed with how it drove.
Having said that, it's not the sort of car I would want to own, which is why I'm trying to persuade my wife she should get one
Having said that, it's not the sort of car I would want to own, which is why I'm trying to persuade my wife she should get one
wibblebrain said:
"Never argue with an idiot on the internet. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
I like that quote. I'm sure most pistonheads start out with good intentions but cars by their very nature tend to evoke emotions in enthusiasts and it is worryingly hard not to get dragged into the meaningless bickering on threads. This last page has made me think that actually maybe the car isn't fast enough because performance isnt just about figures, its relative.. and relatively speaking it isn't enough faster than hatches and mundane motors to make you feel satisfied when you need to safely remove that irritating tailgater.
I hadn't previously thought about it that way but my mini for example did 1/4 mile in 14.9secs.. also with a gentle roll on start and I would be disappointed if I bought a new Porches coupe that was no faster.
otolith said:
I think Chris does well in this (and in the GT86 coverage) to prod the posturing about how much straight line go one actually needs to enjoy driving a road car. Acceleration is fun, no denying it, but it's a cheap thrill and the novelty wears off. A compulsive need to have the capacity to out-accelerate other road users seems to me to be evidence of either an attitude to driving which needs looking at or of some kind of personality disorder.
Here here old chap.Stuart said:
edo said:
The Noise said:
Johnboy Mac said:
After hearing that vid, the summary goes something like this:
I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
Woah...I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
It's easy to throw mud from behind a keyboard and computer screen... But when you accuse someone of corruption in their livelihood... that is something else altogether.
Get over it, the PH community does in fact see the comments for what they are worth and holds the poster of such dross in contempt. We dont need a Guardian Angel to further "prove" the point by banning people for getting it wrong. (unless the poster is "at it" all of the time)
Kneejerk reactions like these are just as tacky as the pathetic comments made.
Christ there are some sickheads on here today.
Review of a new car- informative? Yes. Entertaining? Yes free? Yes
Who really cares that it's not as quick as a 535d, or indeed any other car?
It's a porsche- looks are a personal thing, but the build, the engineering and the pedigree make it what it is- a quick, comfy, luxury car.
Would I have one? Not in a million years- I live in Dubai so it would be a petrol turbo- based on price of fuel and a complete lack of caring about my carbon footprint.
Great car, good video, good luck.
Review of a new car- informative? Yes. Entertaining? Yes free? Yes
Who really cares that it's not as quick as a 535d, or indeed any other car?
It's a porsche- looks are a personal thing, but the build, the engineering and the pedigree make it what it is- a quick, comfy, luxury car.
Would I have one? Not in a million years- I live in Dubai so it would be a petrol turbo- based on price of fuel and a complete lack of caring about my carbon footprint.
Great car, good video, good luck.
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