RE: Chris Harris video: Panamera Diesel
Discussion
It would have been a non event.
generating "entertainment" by evoking strong sentiments.
Realisticly the Panam Diesel is a weighty Barge with an old Audi
engine, and everyone including the PH Head office knows it.
Martin 480 Turbo
Looking forward to the comparison test with Audi A7 3.0Tdi and Mercedes CLS 350 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY
and BMW 640d Gran Coupe. Especially the Audi will run circles around that black toad.
Martin 480 Turbo said:
*
I this stunt still going?
It would have been a non event.
generating "entertainment" by evoking strong sentiments.
Realisticly the Panam Diesel is a weighty Barge with an old Audi
engine, and everyone including the PH Head office knows it.
Martin 480 Turbo
Looking forward to the comparison test with Audi A7 3.0Tdi and Mercedes CLS 350 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY
and BMW 640d Gran Coupe. Especially the Audi will run circles around that black toad.
Well said and Im sure many do agree.I this stunt still going?
It would have been a non event.
generating "entertainment" by evoking strong sentiments.
Realisticly the Panam Diesel is a weighty Barge with an old Audi
engine, and everyone including the PH Head office knows it.
Martin 480 Turbo
Looking forward to the comparison test with Audi A7 3.0Tdi and Mercedes CLS 350 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY
and BMW 640d Gran Coupe. Especially the Audi will run circles around that black toad.
Martin 480 Turbo said:
Especially the Audi will run circles around that black toad.
Not that you're biased or anything going off your current steed. Audi's are dull, FACT. I've owned 7 so I should know....And why do you finish a post with your user name? We can see its you, your forum name is on the left hand side of your post......
donkis2032 said:
Martin 480 Turbo said:
Especially the Audi will run circles around that black toad.
Audi's are dull, FACT. I've owned 7 so I should know....I would go a step further and say any vehicle that has been tampered with by VWAG is a certified dud, they build only to appease bean counters at the cost of dynamics.
Porsche has just succumbed to the group and inherited ES for "efficiency", enough said.
Having had an E60 535d and now running a 635d I feel qualified to comment.
Personally the looks of the Panamera are growing on me, especially the front, the interior is also a nice place to sit and the quality is indeed more 7 series than 5 series. What I can't get my head round is paying £70k or even £30k in a couple of years for a Porsche with an Audi engine in it. And we all know what Audi engines are in reality, Volkswagen engines, I know this sounds petty but it's how I feel. A BMW is 100% a BMW (for now), that's what I like about them.
I just don't see how the Panamera D has moved the game on, surely a Porsche has to have the edge over BMW and Mercedes, not in quality and comfort but in performance, styling and handling - OK it may have an edge in the latter.
Would like to hear what Mr Harris thinks of the 640d 4dr in comparison to the Pan D?
Personally the looks of the Panamera are growing on me, especially the front, the interior is also a nice place to sit and the quality is indeed more 7 series than 5 series. What I can't get my head round is paying £70k or even £30k in a couple of years for a Porsche with an Audi engine in it. And we all know what Audi engines are in reality, Volkswagen engines, I know this sounds petty but it's how I feel. A BMW is 100% a BMW (for now), that's what I like about them.
I just don't see how the Panamera D has moved the game on, surely a Porsche has to have the edge over BMW and Mercedes, not in quality and comfort but in performance, styling and handling - OK it may have an edge in the latter.
Would like to hear what Mr Harris thinks of the 640d 4dr in comparison to the Pan D?
Incredibly capable but just uninspiring. Amazing as a technical exercise, but for that money I'd spend a little less and have something with more character that cost more to run; something that felt special and made me giggle like a child. I've driven the Panamera Diesel across half the West Highlands and I know how good it is, but it still left me cold. A lightly used Maserati GranTurismo, however... oh mama.
Pistonwot said:
Stuart said:
edo said:
The Noise said:
Johnboy Mac said:
After hearing that vid, the summary goes something like this:
I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
Woah...I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
It's easy to throw mud from behind a keyboard and computer screen... But when you accuse someone of corruption in their livelihood... that is something else altogether.
Get over it, the PH community does in fact see the comments for what they are worth and holds the poster of such dross in contempt. We dont need a Guardian Angel to further "prove" the point by banning people for getting it wrong. (unless the poster is "at it" all of the time)
Kneejerk reactions like these are just as tacky as the pathetic comments made.
Crunchy Nutter said:
Pistonwot said:
Stuart said:
edo said:
The Noise said:
Johnboy Mac said:
After hearing that vid, the summary goes something like this:
I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
Woah...I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
It's easy to throw mud from behind a keyboard and computer screen... But when you accuse someone of corruption in their livelihood... that is something else altogether.
Get over it, the PH community does in fact see the comments for what they are worth and holds the poster of such dross in contempt. We dont need a Guardian Angel to further "prove" the point by banning people for getting it wrong. (unless the poster is "at it" all of the time)
Kneejerk reactions like these are just as tacky as the pathetic comments made.
Here you go, I wrote the above in simpleton just for you.
The comments are well out of order as is easily shown by the PH collective response.
I was alluding that PH community can itself see the issue with the comments made so theres no need for PH staff to overreact by immediately banning and then stamping its feet very publicly just to be "seen to be doing something", its not required. PH users have already shown contempt.
Mr Harris will have his own feelings on what ought to be done, this alone is what should be addressed.
What we dont need is to ban everything immediately as a first recourse anytime a comment is a bit off the mark, it is an infantile response. Im sure you are well aware of this though?
Stuart said:
I think it's very much a PH car.
It may be a Harris car and a PH car, but it is certainly not a EVO car...http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2563...
After driving the Panamera for several years in different specs around the west coast of the US I simply cannot understand what Mr Harris is on about. The car just does not handle that well.
b
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Ooh someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed didn't they?
I'll expand, an overpriced, ugly oil burner from a once great marque. Now, instead of one of his usual Porsche puff pieces spouting guff about how good they are, why couldn't he perhaps have tested it against key rivals?
I'm sure he mentioned that it was almost as fast as the bench marque, the 530d? Did I get that correct? (I may have drifter off).
So wow, we get a video of mr harris waxing lyrical about how you get a faster, cheaper car but the Porsche is still magnificent so we won't even test it against the other car to let you know if subjectively its worth the extra money.
Oh & if you're not impressed with the Porsche just watch me drift it in slow motion so you can be ever so impressed with my driving.
Pointless.
Agree with you completely! This is the first time anyone has ever lauded the handling of the Panamera. I've heard great things about the Jaguar XF/XJ, many M5's, the Aston, but never this. No sense here. Do I agree with my own negative experience (and as well so many negative reviews I have read about this car) or suddenly agree with this test which as "Laura's other" aptly states doesn't even compare the car to its relevant competitors? bI'll expand, an overpriced, ugly oil burner from a once great marque. Now, instead of one of his usual Porsche puff pieces spouting guff about how good they are, why couldn't he perhaps have tested it against key rivals?
I'm sure he mentioned that it was almost as fast as the bench marque, the 530d? Did I get that correct? (I may have drifter off).
So wow, we get a video of mr harris waxing lyrical about how you get a faster, cheaper car but the Porsche is still magnificent so we won't even test it against the other car to let you know if subjectively its worth the extra money.
Oh & if you're not impressed with the Porsche just watch me drift it in slow motion so you can be ever so impressed with my driving.
Pointless.
love the vid, fantastic that your tackling debate head on
however zero interest in the car with that engine, why would i care about saving £100 a month on fuel if i am forking out £1400+ a month for a car?
V8 please
oh and for the record, target 0-100 times is in the 10 second range, so yep its bloody slow
however zero interest in the car with that engine, why would i care about saving £100 a month on fuel if i am forking out £1400+ a month for a car?
V8 please
oh and for the record, target 0-100 times is in the 10 second range, so yep its bloody slow
Hellbound said:
If we're not careful and more appreciative of the time CH and crew put into making these vids, I wouldn't be surprised if he moved to the US.
Personally I think they should put him on Top Gear USA, he'll liven that show right up.
Have a Personally I think they should put him on Top Gear USA, he'll liven that show right up.
I was going to try & point out the relation of posting up a video of your opinions on a forum where the whole point of adding content is to promote discussion but I'd say it would be wasted in you.
Pistonwot said:
Here I am trying to infer the PH collective is rather adult in its views and quite intelligent too, then you come along.
Here you go, I wrote the above in simpleton just for you.
The comments are well out of order as is easily shown by the PH collective response.
I was alluding that PH community can itself see the issue with the comments made so theres no need for PH staff to overreact by immediately banning and then stamping its feet very publicly just to be "seen to be doing something", its not required. PH users have already shown contempt.
Mr Harris will have his own feelings on what ought to be done, this alone is what should be addressed.
What we dont need is to ban everything immediately as a first recourse anytime a comment is a bit off the mark, it is an infantile response. Im sure you are well aware of this though?
Look at his post againHere you go, I wrote the above in simpleton just for you.
The comments are well out of order as is easily shown by the PH collective response.
I was alluding that PH community can itself see the issue with the comments made so theres no need for PH staff to overreact by immediately banning and then stamping its feet very publicly just to be "seen to be doing something", its not required. PH users have already shown contempt.
Mr Harris will have his own feelings on what ought to be done, this alone is what should be addressed.
What we dont need is to ban everything immediately as a first recourse anytime a comment is a bit off the mark, it is an infantile response. Im sure you are well aware of this though?
Johnboy Mac said:
After hearing that vid, the summary goes something like this:
I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
I mean come on, on the one hand he rambles on about brown envelopes from Porsche implying CH is handing out the compliments for free rides and hospitality and then goes and mentions Ferrari!I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).
Or:
Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.
Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
When the whole reason he's persona non grata at Ferrari is because instead of taking the free rides an hospitility and shutting the hell up about there less than savoury approach to marketing there cars, he went on the internet and wrote a less than flatering piece about how they conduct themselves in this regard and hey presto, door face and shut.
Facepalm does not even begin to cover idiocy of the "corruption/backhanders" argument forwarded there.
I mean if your going to sling a load of mud, dont rub it in your own face first.
Just to put the stark difference of ideas about the panamera into perspective here's a bit of the exact reverse (From Evo test with the V8) of what Harris just wrote:
"You at least know where you are with the Maserati, though. Slip into the Porsche’s firm seat, get comfy and survey the cabin and there’s much to like, to feel good about. All-surface sandy brownness not withstanding, it is obviously a high-quality item, the stoutness of its build and fineness of its finish matched only by the Bentley. It feels nicely polished pulling away, too, the PDK gearbox smooth, the V8 throbbing softly, but the contrast with the dynamic feel of the Maserati and Aston is stark. After a couple of corners you realise you’re more aware of the weight, after a couple more that you’re not quite connected, either through the steering – which feels quick witted but disconnected – or the seat of your pants."
"On the default damper setting, the Panamera feels floaty and bothered by the surface, failing to deal with bumps decisively. It’s an uncomfortable feeling. Where in the Aston you plan your lines and clipping points, measuring out the power and rolling your wrists to get you there, in the Porsche you feel like your best hope is an approximate line. And when the road gets properly turbulent you have to set the dampers on maximum firmness otherwise when you crest and turn it feels like the body is headed one way and the chassis the other."
"The Porsche looks uncomfortable over crests and dips and is finding bumps that don’t exist for the Bentley, kicking the rear out. Awful to watch, worse to drive."
b
"You at least know where you are with the Maserati, though. Slip into the Porsche’s firm seat, get comfy and survey the cabin and there’s much to like, to feel good about. All-surface sandy brownness not withstanding, it is obviously a high-quality item, the stoutness of its build and fineness of its finish matched only by the Bentley. It feels nicely polished pulling away, too, the PDK gearbox smooth, the V8 throbbing softly, but the contrast with the dynamic feel of the Maserati and Aston is stark. After a couple of corners you realise you’re more aware of the weight, after a couple more that you’re not quite connected, either through the steering – which feels quick witted but disconnected – or the seat of your pants."
"On the default damper setting, the Panamera feels floaty and bothered by the surface, failing to deal with bumps decisively. It’s an uncomfortable feeling. Where in the Aston you plan your lines and clipping points, measuring out the power and rolling your wrists to get you there, in the Porsche you feel like your best hope is an approximate line. And when the road gets properly turbulent you have to set the dampers on maximum firmness otherwise when you crest and turn it feels like the body is headed one way and the chassis the other."
"The Porsche looks uncomfortable over crests and dips and is finding bumps that don’t exist for the Bentley, kicking the rear out. Awful to watch, worse to drive."
b
E38Ross said:
Some people have been bang out of order here. Chris has done a pretty good job of showing those who think it's too slow that they're wrong. In reality, people cope with half that power every day so it's clearly enough. Whether that's what you'd expect from a 70k porsche is another matter, but it's clearly a brilliant all rounder
when?he demonstrated that it was extremely slow in a straight line, but for him it was a perfect blend of driver involvement, quality, frugality etc but then again he loves the passat diesel which is one of the worst cars i have ever driven, even worse than a base polo with randomly servo'd electric steering.
handling does seam very impressive for a 2 tonne car
but if i wanted an ugly 2 tonne 70 grand car i would get a GTR and not have to worry about slowness, horses for courses etc
still an impressive and enjoyable vid
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Thursday 13th September 22:26
brianjohns said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Ooh someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed didn't they?
I'll expand, an overpriced, ugly oil burner from a once great marque. Now, instead of one of his usual Porsche puff pieces spouting guff about how good they are, why couldn't he perhaps have tested it against key rivals?
I'm sure he mentioned that it was almost as fast as the bench marque, the 530d? Did I get that correct? (I may have drifter off).
So wow, we get a video of mr harris waxing lyrical about how you get a faster, cheaper car but the Porsche is still magnificent so we won't even test it against the other car to let you know if subjectively its worth the extra money.
Oh & if you're not impressed with the Porsche just watch me drift it in slow motion so you can be ever so impressed with my driving.
Pointless.
Agree with you completely! This is the first time anyone has ever lauded the handling of the Panamera. I've heard great things about the Jaguar XF/XJ, many M5's, the Aston, but never this. No sense here. Do I agree with my own negative experience (and as well so many negative reviews I have read about this car) or suddenly agree with this test which as "Laura's other" aptly states doesn't even compare the car to its relevant competitors? bI'll expand, an overpriced, ugly oil burner from a once great marque. Now, instead of one of his usual Porsche puff pieces spouting guff about how good they are, why couldn't he perhaps have tested it against key rivals?
I'm sure he mentioned that it was almost as fast as the bench marque, the 530d? Did I get that correct? (I may have drifter off).
So wow, we get a video of mr harris waxing lyrical about how you get a faster, cheaper car but the Porsche is still magnificent so we won't even test it against the other car to let you know if subjectively its worth the extra money.
Oh & if you're not impressed with the Porsche just watch me drift it in slow motion so you can be ever so impressed with my driving.
Pointless.
Harris did test the Panamera S manual in an Evo group test a while ago against an older E39 M5 and the Holden as part of a V8 Heroes article, the Panny won.
There was also an Evo group test with the Panamera S against the M5, Jag and C63 which the M5 won. They should have used the Panny Turbo but it is too expensive.
I don't recall the Panny Turbo ever being tested against the latest M5 and other rivals due to the price difference, I would imagine there is not alot in it on track between a 2012 M5 and Pan Turbo.
Back to the Panny Diesel, it would need to be group tested against Audi A6, BMW 535D and Jag XJ but what are we saying here, all positive reviews about cars need to be a group tested otherwise they are meaningless and cannot be posted? Not sure that's right.
This article is more about how much speed you need in a car as opposed to how much you want or can use on the UK roads, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Thursday 13th September 22:28
Know its stupid and not a valid argument but would still get annoyed if had one of these that my £70,000 + Porsche could be left at the lights buy a 27k Vauxhall Astra...
And to be honest for 15k less you could get an Alpina D5 Bi-Turbo which would run rings about this with a whole 100bhp more and in my mind also be a lot better looking as well.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/a...
And to be honest for 15k less you could get an Alpina D5 Bi-Turbo which would run rings about this with a whole 100bhp more and in my mind also be a lot better looking as well.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/a...
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