RE: Chris Harris video: Panamera Diesel

[edo]

Gadgeroonie said:

i have to say i think chris is wrong

yes the car is fast enough - but not for the porsche badge IMHO

you don't buy a 70k porsche to go slow

driving this car must be like advertising you have a small willy now chris has identified how slow it really is, a 15 sec 1/4 mile time is not good !

i would rather have a m5 or gtr

but that is only my opinion

Jesus Christ.

[vinnie83]

Gadgeroonie said:

i have to say i think chris is wrong

yes the car is fast enough - but not for the porsche badge IMHO

you don't buy a 70k porsche to go slow

driving this car must be like advertising you have a small willy now chris has identified how slow it really is, a 15 sec 1/4 mile time is not good !

i would rather have a m5 or gtr

but that is only my opinion

For the person who likes GTR performance, they have the 911 turbo...

For the M5, Panamera Turbo.

Are you seeing a pattern here?

If you would rather a performance car, then compare it to a relevant Porsche!

Why do people not understand, this car will quite often be the DD for someone with a faster car!

[jbi]

if you have a 70k for a porsche...

what's the point in the diesel?

It does nothing that the larger petrols don't do better other than use less fuel.

[LayZ]

jbi said:

if you have a 70k for a porsche...

what's the point in the diesel?

It does nothing that the larger petrols don't do better other than use less fuel.

A) not many buyers will pay cash, so running costs (depreciation + fuel + servicing) are more important than overall purchase price.

B) These are built to do big miles. Do 20k a year in a Panamera Turbo @ 15mpg = £27k in petrol in three years. That is serious wedge.

[R300will]

blearyeyedboy said:

R300will said:

So ignore the troll and get back to this hideous lump of pig iron?

Though I think there's a difference between internet arsery and taking action to protect your professional reputation... Point taken and I'll start talking about the ugly munter of a car again.

Anyway, it may be hideous but you don't have to look at it when you drive it. I'm amazed how many people spend large amounts of money on driving something that's beautiful for other people to look at, and yet it's furnished like someone's raided Matalan in the bit you've paid a lot of money to sit in.

Then again, I'd love a car that looked like a Golfocastra and went like a Cayman. Then again, I'm weird.

Then the answer is still TVR

[jbi]

LayZ said:

A) not many buyers will pay cash, so running costs (depreciation + fuel + servicing) are more important than overall purchase price.

B) These are built to do big miles. Do 20k a year in a Panamera Turbo @ 15mpg = £27k in petrol in three years. That is serious wedge.

So your paying 70k for an interior, sporty handling and a badge...

Wouldn't you rather spend less on a jaguar/mercedes/bmw with a proper engine and use the money saved on petrol?

One last thing... if you do 20,000 miles a year, your going to be spending a lot of time on the motorway where the petrol porsche is going to be much closer to the diesel in terms of MPG

Edited by jbi on Friday 14th September 13:45

[andyps]

RichTBiscuit said:

Are you really this thick? Accusing someone of Bias in their profession without evidence is not fair play on a public forum.

One question; Have you perhaps, ever considered that CH has no bias and Porsche simply make stonking cars that quite often outperform their competition?

Sorry if that's a little logical for you

I think that if you regularly read Chris Harris articles it is pretty clear that he is a fan of the products made by Porsche in general terms. I don't know if that constitutes bias, just a reflection of his preferences which is something I notice in his writing, nothing wrong with that in my view. It could well be that Porsche make stonking cars that quite often outperform their competition (I don't have enough experience of any of them to make comments), but there are people, including journalists, who do not like them for whatever reasons they themselves feel. Provided we, the reader, understand that is there really an issue?

Whilst an interesting video I don't think it is the best solution to show the car is "fast enough", because that is a very subjective phrase based on lots of other factors, including as many people have said, the expectation of a Porsche at that price level.

My question from the earlier thread which Chris sort of answered but realistically, given his profession, cannot actually be answered totally, is whether over a 2 or 3 year period there wouldn't be times you would wish for a petrol engine for some of the drives you would have the ability to make. However good a diesel might be there is, in my view, something special about revving a petrol which a diesel lacks - Chris indicated as much in the video about his 599. So could you really live for 2 or 3 years and basically have the one car (Panamera diesel) to drive and never miss the performance characteristics a petrol provides? Many people do only have one car with odd exceptions of a test drive or a drive in a mates car, that is the scenario I am thinking of.

[LayZ]

jbi said:

So your paying 70k for an interior, sporty handling and a badge...

Wouldn't you rather spend less on a jaguar/mercedes/bmw with a proper engine and use the money saved on petrol?

One last thing... if you do 20,000 miles a year, your going to be spending a lot of time on the motorway where the petrol porsche is going to be much closer to the diesel in terms of MPG

Edited by jbi on Friday 14th September 13:45

No because the sums won't add up. Say you get something significantly faster, like an XFR. They are £60k new, will suffer horrendous depreciation, and will guzzle fuel. £10k more list price would be easily offset.

Harris reckons 45mpg motorway use. No V8 Porsche is going to come close to that.

[edo]

jbi said:

LayZ said:

A) not many buyers will pay cash, so running costs (depreciation + fuel + servicing) are more important than overall purchase price.

B) These are built to do big miles. Do 20k a year in a Panamera Turbo @ 15mpg = £27k in petrol in three years. That is serious wedge.

So your paying 70k for an interior, sporty handling and a badge...

Wouldn't you rather spend less on a jaguar/mercedes/bmw with a proper engine and use the money saved on petrol?

One last thing... if you do 20,000 miles a year, your going to be spending a lot of time on the motorway where the petrol porsche is going to be much closer to the diesel in terms of MPG

Edited by jbi on Friday 14th September 13:45

1. You're not your.
2. This car isnt marketed to you
3. most people buying this car have other cars in the garage
4. If you spend any time on the UK motorways you would know a circa 250bhp Diesel is plenty (more) performance than you need.
5. These cars are mostly leased or PCP, and also via companies, so tax bracket and BIK are important.


What the hell is wrong with PH at the moment? There are thousands of different shapes, sizes, types of car out there. Everytone wants somthing different in their cars, and it would be a bloody boring place if everyone bought the same thing.

Jesus. If you dont like the Panamera, move on!!!

[davepoth]

RichTBiscuit said:

Are you really this thick? Accusing someone of Bias in their profession without evidence is not fair play on a public forum.

One question; Have you perhaps, ever considered that CH has no bias and Porsche simply make stonking cars that quite often outperform their competition?

Sorry if that's a little logical for you

And even if he's a Porsche fan (and I guess he is), that's not being biased. So he likes the ride/handling compromise that is characteristic of Porsche products - from the one I've driven, they do it very well. If that's the "sweet spot" for him, then it makes sense he'd say it was the best car in the segment. I'd probably say it was a bit crashy on the bumps, but then I do drive a lolloping sofa of a car.

What has been alleged is bias - i.e. that he is saying the Panamera is awesome despite it not being awesome, solely on the basis that Porsche have provided a Panamera for a few months.

If it were that easy to buy the opinion of motoring journalists then there wouldn't be any motoring journalism. It goes to the very core of journalism that what gets written on the page, printed or electronic, is as close to what the journalist sees as truth as they can muster. So someone saying that they're lying just to get a nice car is a really strong insult.

[CampDavid]

edo said:

3. most people buying this car have other cars in the garage

See, I'm wondering about this. Obviously, you're in the demographic that could buy this and you do have other cars but I'd have thought most owners will have this as an only car for themselves, though their other half etc will have their own. Some will have weekend wheels but I'd have thought this is more of a do-all type purchase.

I'd imagine nearly all of them will be on PCP or similar. There are very few people with £70k knocking about who'll want to own this outright

[Actus Reus]

Would be interested to hear Chris' (or anybody else's) view on the Panam Hybrid? I had one for 24hours a few weeks ago and I thought it was great, but I have the strong suspicion that the rest of the range would seriously outpoint it - the limit of grip came up much more quickly than I imagined it would having read a fair bit about the rest of the range (down to weight I suppose?).

As to the rest of the car, I was seriously impressed with the interior, ride and steering - all were superb - a better car to drive, or be a passenger in, I thought, than an S-class.

[davepoth]

CampDavid said:

edo said:

3. most people buying this car have other cars in the garage

See, I'm wondering about this. Obviously, you're in the demographic that could buy this and you do have other cars but I'd have thought most owners will have this as an only car for themselves, though their other half etc will have their own. Some will have weekend wheels but I'd have thought this is more of a do-all type purchase.

I'd imagine nearly all of them will be on PCP or similar. There are very few people with £70k knocking about who'll want to own this outright

This has to be a main/only car proposition - you wouldn't buy the diesel unless you were doing some serious miles in it. I'd guess anyone who can afford to drop £70k cash would go for the petrol one anyway.

[croakey]

Sure the simplified version of this all is :

The video regardless of whether you agree with it or not is Mr Harris' opinion of a car. You don't have to agree with it, nor disagree with it because it is simply HIS opinion.

It would also appear there is a small minority on here that are jealous of someone doing a job we'd all love to do and rather than think "fair play" chose to bh and whinge.You don't have to agree with that, nor disagree it is simply my opinion

By all means discuss the car - but the personal attacks are a tad boring

[P4ROT]

Looks like a good car, but surely when Porsche make a diesel they should be benchmarking it against stuff like the D5?

[Stuart]

R300will said:

blearyeyedboy said:

Stuart said:

Not a knee jerk reaction, but one we've arrived at gradually during the year. We're getting really bored of comments such as this, and don't want them or the people who make them on the site. We're all for a good argument but the sort of statement we're talking about has no place here.

I'm saying that publicly so that people can consider themselves warned.

If it's any consolation Stuart, many of your forum goers are equally bored of this. I come to this website to read and write a little about cars. Like many others, I don't come here to read about this sort of unsubstantiated rubbish from keyboard warriors.

If someone made unsubstantiated allegations of corruption related to my work on a popular website, I'd have spoken to lawyers a long, long time ago. Whether you agree with his writing or not, Mr Harris' restraint is admirable.

Stuart, if that's a knee jerk reaction then your reflexes are abnormally slow and I'd suggest a visit to your doctor.

This whole 'if someone says something nasty about me i'll ban or tell on you' is a bit playground. The PH masses shouted this guy down as a bit of a tt so why not accept that the major community thinks his opinion is wrong, and therefore that it holds no merit, and stop trying to dick measure with them.

The insinuation that CH was taking bribes or is biased is unfounded and fasle. Everyone on here seems to know this. So ignore the troll and get back to this hideous lump of pig iron?

I know that we can ignore him, and I know that most people know that such allegations are a nonsense. Not everybody does though, and we would simply prefer not to have such people participating on PistonHeads. So call it a ban, call it a revokation of membership, call it what you'd like. It won't be done publicly or in the spirit of retribution, but we'll simply add it to the list of things (such as posting links to certain porn sites, or defaming companies) which would lead to moderator intervention.

Thanks for both these posts though. Heartening to know that there are many PHers with their heads screwed on the right way around!

[Cobnapint]

davepoth said:

This has to be a main/only car proposition - you wouldn't buy the diesel unless you were doing some serious miles in it. I'd guess anyone who can afford to drop £70k cash would go for the petrol one anyway.

Can we get rid of this ridiculous myth that everybody who buys a diesel must only be doing so to get better mpg!?

Quite ridiculous.

They do so because sometimes, in certain vehicles, in certain circumstances, they drive (thanks to the torque) quite a bit better than petrol cars do. On top of that variable, you also get something called 'personal choice' thrown into the mix.

Alot of the time, mpg has fk all to do with it.

[Cobnapint]

Stuart said:

sisu said:

Chris do you have the wall of the house papered with old copies of Christophrus/GT Purely Porsche giving acronyms to things around the house rolling a vario cam chain thru your fingers like worry beads?
It is a horrible looking car, even with Porki glasses on. A Corvette nose- S-Class middle - 911 rear end.
But like a Catholic Priest giving advice about contraception this is OK as long as you are staying faithful to the Porsche brand. The factory drip feeding snippets of what you really want and asking you to abstain from what you like for just a little longer. Oh since the 989 you have been hoping to enjoy the back doors every once in a while like everyone else. Your problem is that this Panamera Diesel is 100kgs lighter than the V8. But I feel that the guilt of the 912/914/Cayman is upon you. You want to enjoy the ligher more nimble version from Porsche. But you know that there is a heavier more powerful version you shouldn't like.
I am sorry for the annalogies of sexual tension. But you know that there are various incarnations that you and others would like. But they will never induldge this

Are you on drugs?

Sounds like glue to me.

[cerb4.5lee]

Cobnapint said:

Can we get rid of this ridiculous myth that everybody who buys a diesel must only be doing so to get better mpg!?

Quite ridiculous.

They do so because sometimes, in certain vehicles, in certain circumstances, they drive (thanks to the torque) quite a bit better than petrol cars do. On top of that variable, you also get something called 'personal choice' thrown into the mix.

Alot of the time, mpg has fk all to do with it.

My mrs can relate to this totally she swapped her E90 330d for a Audi TT-S & she misses the torque of the beemer loads, the audi is so laggy, fine once its going, dont get me wrong the beemer had a hint of lag but nothing compared to the TT, the beemer was an auto & audi S- tronic.

The audi is alot quicker on paper but the beemer had nice usable power & she feels short changed in the audi so its an interesting diesel vs petrol situation.

[sisu]

But the bottom line is who actually owns a diesel Porsche Panamera?
The next one will be who owns (apart from the only demonstrator in the UK) a Manual shift Panamera GTS? The other version of the same car that CH loves its charms.
It would also be the same conumdrum trying to find a manual V12 Ferrari 599, in theory the quintsential Ferrari?
But the numbers don't match with what is said by those expressing an opinion here and in other publications and what real people are buying.