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Dave Hedgehog

7,033 posts

87 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
tyrewrecker said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
being extremely exposed makes for a very thrilling driving experience, add in superior braking and cornering from its low mass and that takes the enjoyment factor to 11, and there are plenty of 7s that will decimate 10 seconds, however 7s arnt really relevant to this thread since its in relation to a 4 seater porker, not the ultimate in raw driving experience type cars
It is relevant as he is responding to you
i think its fair to say that on my personal scale of desired performance, the slower accelerative nature this particular 7 is more than made up for by the shear thrill of such an exposed and raw driving experience

but i would also add that i am personally not masochistic enough to be able to use a seven every day, or small enough to fit in one

but if i did i would shove a busa engine in it wink

DonkeyApple

16,419 posts

52 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
R300will said:
Rubbish. You only buy a diesel for the MPG or emissions (amounts to the same thing). If you want performance you go for petrol as the engines are lighter and offer more power therefore giving better balance and power to weight. If you want lazy fake performance you go diesel because you get that surge of torque for a few hundred revs.

Take an extreme example : The Range Rover. Now everyone buys the diesel because it gives reasonable performance and doesn't cost the earth to fuel. But the supercharged petrol is faster and would sound better but would cost far too much to run over here. So you choose the diesel purely because of the mpg's
You need to chuck modern auto boxes into the equation these days.

It's these that have actually removed the downside of diesel.

I'm never going to be a fan of diesel in small cars but in barges nowadays I think they are the smarter choice over petrol.

In a barge you are not hustling but wafting for many miles and modern 8 speed boxes play wonderfully into the hands of a big torquey diesel. In today's world diesel is a superior option to petrol in certain types of cars meant for certain types of driving.

Back to the Porsche, is it ok for them to put a diesel in their cars? Damn right. Would be odd in the sports cars but in their two barge models it's a must as it's the right engine choice for the job at hand.

Am I surprised that they've fitted an engine that requires journalists to make special videos to try and justify, explain, demonstrate that it has some kind of performance? Yes. Very. The Porsche brand expects more. It's not a Passat, it is a close cousin to what is probably the finest all round sports car legacy ever created. The diesel engine used by such a company should never require anyone to try and explain or prove that it can do a job, it should just sime be apparent from the outset that it's awesome.

The new diesel in the Cayenne does this. It has a set of numbers that from the moment you read them you know that it will do what a car carrying the Porsche badge should be capable of doing.

As with most things in life, the simple golden rule is that if it needs to be explained or justified then something isn't right with it.

Dave Hedgehog

7,033 posts

87 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Chr1sch said:
Very slow!? Get a grip

People on here act as if anything less than a £50k gtr id just not good enough, it's insanity

Plenty of decently fast, aspirational cars are far slower than 10 to 100mph

The demographic on here seems to split between those wanting to run old barges/classics and those that have afternoon tea at the Ritz (or talk like it...)

What happened to an overall love/appreciation for all things automotive

Yes the Panemera is ugly and yes it's a diesel but it certainly isn't slow and has to be appreciated as a piece of engineering...
budget only becomes relevant in terms of comparison to this particular panamera, in that its reasonably closely priced to the GTR which is substantially faster. If i had to pick between the 2 i wouldn't even think about the porsche, but then personally i would rather have an RS4 avant (or the AMG C63 Estate) over both of these cars as a personal choice as a road car.

and you can get similar sort of performance on a much lower budget, a sapphire cosworth running 280bhp+ should be very close etc

as of a love of all things automotive, sorry i cant, i have driven a base polo which is just horrific

Rawwr

14,279 posts

117 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
as of a love of all things automotive¹
¹so long as it's german, has DSG, over 300bhp, costs less than £50,000 and gets to 100mph in less than 10 seconds.

Dave Hedgehog

7,033 posts

87 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Rawwr said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
as of a love of all things automotive¹
¹so long as it's german, has DSG, over 300bhp, costs less than £50,000 and gets to 100mph in less than 10 seconds.
tongue out

there are plenty of cars that i love are not German or expensive or have DSG, DSG works very well for me currently as i spend 3 hours a day driving in london, but get to play on our local country lanes as well

a friend at work is selling his supercharged XKR Coupe, its got a stainless performance exhaust and sounds amazing,looks stunning, and goes like the clappers and a bargain for 5 grand

if only i had somewhere to put it frown

i would love something like this as well, got a real itch for a V8 atm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/4200369.htm



Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Sunday 16th September 09:48

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Cobnapint

922 posts

34 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
R300will said:
Rubbish. You only buy a diesel for the MPG or emissions (amounts to the same thing). If you want performance you go for petrol as the engines are lighter and offer more power therefore giving better balance and power to weight. If you want lazy fake performance you go diesel because you get that surge of torque for a few hundred revs.

Take an extreme example : The Range Rover. Now everyone buys the diesel because it gives reasonable performance and doesn't cost the earth to fuel. But the supercharged petrol is faster and would sound better but would cost far too much to run over here. So you choose the diesel purely because of the mpg's
Its not all about the ultimate on-paper performance figures, its about how the power is delivered. If you want to drive around all day taking your engine to 5000+ rpm in every gear just to access all its power, then feel free. Would drive me nuts personally -
much better to waft around reasonably quickly on a wave of un-fake torque. The fact diesels do so with relatively better economy is just a bonus.

R300will

3,714 posts

34 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Cobnapint said:
R300will said:
Rubbish. You only buy a diesel for the MPG or emissions (amounts to the same thing). If you want performance you go for petrol as the engines are lighter and offer more power therefore giving better balance and power to weight. If you want lazy fake performance you go diesel because you get that surge of torque for a few hundred revs.

Take an extreme example : The Range Rover. Now everyone buys the diesel because it gives reasonable performance and doesn't cost the earth to fuel. But the supercharged petrol is faster and would sound better but would cost far too much to run over here. So you choose the diesel purely because of the mpg's
Its not all about the ultimate on-paper performance figures, its about how the power is delivered. If you want to drive around all day taking your engine to 5000+ rpm in every gear just to access all its power, then feel free. Would drive me nuts personally -
much better to waft around reasonably quickly on a wave of un-fake torque. The fact diesels do so with relatively better economy is just a bonus.
If you want the same torque as a diesel then just put a turbo on your petrol engine. The diesel wouldn't have anything if it didn't have a turbo which people seem to forget. A turbo petrol will deliver just as much useable torque as a diesel without having to get to 5000rpm.

So if comparing like for like the only upside to the diesel is its better mpg so that's the reason people choose it.

davepoth

22,926 posts

82 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Cobnapint said:
I'm not on about emmisions, I'm on about mpg.

And I'm not on about the reasons given for introducing a car, I'm on about the reasons for somebody wanting to buy one.

But in answer to your hat-eating pub quiz forfeit question, how about the recently announced V8 Cayenne diesel S. That kicks out higher emmisions than the existing diesel does.

Humble pie flavoured hats now available to order online. wink
Emissions and MPG are exactly the same thing in the context of the EU numbers - the emissions are calculated from the same base data.

As for the Cayenne diesel S, I assume it's for people who want the power of a V8, but better mpg?

Spoof

1,570 posts

98 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Seriously, anything that won't do 100 in under 10 isn't quick?

I've never got out of the E63 in to either my diesel or my wife's and thought, hmmmm these feel really slow now.

Granted they're nowhere near as quick at full tilt, but for 99% of the time on busy public roads, going to the shops, going to work it makes no difference to me. I may as well enjoy the low down effortless torque and save some pennies.

If I had to chose one car to do everything, it'd be a big engined diesel.

Spoof

1,570 posts

98 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
Cobnapint said:
I'm not on about emmisions, I'm on about mpg.

And I'm not on about the reasons given for introducing a car, I'm on about the reasons for somebody wanting to buy one.

But in answer to your hat-eating pub quiz forfeit question, how about the recently announced V8 Cayenne diesel S. That kicks out higher emmisions than the existing diesel does.

Humble pie flavoured hats now available to order online. wink
Emissions and MPG are exactly the same thing in the context of the EU numbers - the emissions are calculated from the same base data.

As for the Cayenne diesel S, I assume it's for people who want the power of a V8, but better mpg?
Audi's flagship Q7 V12 TDi then.

davepoth

22,926 posts

82 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Spoof said:
Audi's flagship Q7 V12 TDi then.
I'd say that's a truck. wink

otolith

24,971 posts

87 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Can you buy a Q7 without a doctor's note certifying you as a sociopath?

vinnie83

2,917 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
tyrewrecker said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
the series 2 exige does a sub 10 sec 100, so it is acceptable wink and the 360 reportedly does a 9.2
So anything slower than a Ferrari 360 is slow?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_360

Nearer ten
anything with a 10. something or quicker, is my personal preference
So why have you owned a string of, and currently own by your own standards, a slow car?

The panamera is not fast, but it's plenty quick enough!

Spoof

1,570 posts

98 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
Can you buy a Q7 without a doctor's note certifying you as a sociopath?
If you buy privately .. I believe that's only a dealer requirement.

Wills2

8,122 posts

58 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
by my standards 100 in 15 is very slow
Just not though is it? It's decently quick actually.



Dave Hedgehog

7,033 posts

87 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
vinnie83 said:
So why have you owned a string of, and currently own by your own standards, a slow car?

The panamera is not fast, but it's plenty quick enough!
quick enough for you, but very slow in the context of a 70 grand Porsche

just about all my cars have had at least stage one, the S4 had 620nm of torque

my R32 i would admit is a very slow car, but it fit my requirements and budget at the time

tyrewrecker

6,419 posts

37 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Wills2 said:
Just not though is it? It's decently quick actually.

Precisely. Clearly trolling

vinnie83

2,917 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
vinnie83 said:
So why have you owned a string of, and currently own by your own standards, a slow car?

The panamera is not fast, but it's plenty quick enough!
quick enough for you, but very slow in the context of a 70 grand Porsche

just about all my cars have had at least stage one, the S4 had 620nm of torque

my R32 i would admit is a very slow car, but it fit my requirements and budget at the time
I think the point is that it's quick enough for a daily driver. The point that it's the same price as a GTR but slower is silly, there's plenty of faster cars even cheaper... but the person thinking about buying this car will not be thinking about a GTR!

Maybe a 6 series, 7 series, S class, etc.

All of which are much slower than the GTR.

Porsche make very fast cars, if you want one, go and buy one. They make slower cars for those who have other priorities.

I certainly never felt wanting for more power when I had this car for a few days, as that's simply not the point of the car.

Kind of like me saying that none of your cars are fast enough for me as I have a 997 turbo.. it's irrelevant as they were never meant to compete.

edo

14,393 posts

148 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
As I said before, of course you can always buy a faster car for the same money, but not everyone is doing a track day every day.

Our soon to arrive Diesel Cayenne was chosen because we already have a 5.0 V8 for weekends and trips away. We wanted a comfortable, safe, practical car, that had a lovely interior, good handling (for its class), great residuals, and good range.

If a Diesel Porsche isn't for you, that's fine, buy what you want!

jbi

7,534 posts

87 months

[news] 
Sunday 16th September 2012 quote quote all
Wills2 said:
Just not though is it? It's decently quick actually.

as previously mentioned in this thread... a bog standard Toyota Camry from the factory will do 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds and the quarter Mile in 14.1

your Porsche is slower than this



and also slower than this honda accord (0-60 mph 6.1 Quarter Mile 14.6)



Even the Honda Odyssey MPV will do 0-60 in 7.3 and the quarter Mile in 15.6



Edited by jbi on Sunday 16th September 14:40

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