RE: Chris Harris video: Panamera Diesel

[Dave Hedgehog]

Rawwr said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

as of a love of all things automotive¹

¹so long as it's german, has DSG, over 300bhp, costs less than £50,000 and gets to 100mph in less than 10 seconds.

there are plenty of cars that i love are not German or expensive or have DSG, DSG works very well for me currently as i spend 3 hours a day driving in london, but get to play on our local country lanes as well

a friend at work is selling his supercharged XKR Coupe, its got a stainless performance exhaust and sounds amazing,looks stunning, and goes like the clappers and a bargain for 5 grand

if only i had somewhere to put it

i would love something like this as well, got a real itch for a V8 atm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/4200369.htm

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Sunday 16th September 09:48

[Cobnapint]

R300will said:

Rubbish. You only buy a diesel for the MPG or emissions (amounts to the same thing). If you want performance you go for petrol as the engines are lighter and offer more power therefore giving better balance and power to weight. If you want lazy fake performance you go diesel because you get that surge of torque for a few hundred revs.

Take an extreme example : The Range Rover. Now everyone buys the diesel because it gives reasonable performance and doesn't cost the earth to fuel. But the supercharged petrol is faster and would sound better but would cost far too much to run over here. So you choose the diesel purely because of the mpg's

Its not all about the ultimate on-paper performance figures, its about how the power is delivered. If you want to drive around all day taking your engine to 5000+ rpm in every gear just to access all its power, then feel free. Would drive me nuts personally -
much better to waft around reasonably quickly on a wave of un-fake torque. The fact diesels do so with relatively better economy is just a bonus.

[R300will]

Cobnapint said:

R300will said:

Rubbish. You only buy a diesel for the MPG or emissions (amounts to the same thing). If you want performance you go for petrol as the engines are lighter and offer more power therefore giving better balance and power to weight. If you want lazy fake performance you go diesel because you get that surge of torque for a few hundred revs.

Take an extreme example : The Range Rover. Now everyone buys the diesel because it gives reasonable performance and doesn't cost the earth to fuel. But the supercharged petrol is faster and would sound better but would cost far too much to run over here. So you choose the diesel purely because of the mpg's

Its not all about the ultimate on-paper performance figures, its about how the power is delivered. If you want to drive around all day taking your engine to 5000+ rpm in every gear just to access all its power, then feel free. Would drive me nuts personally -
much better to waft around reasonably quickly on a wave of un-fake torque. The fact diesels do so with relatively better economy is just a bonus.

If you want the same torque as a diesel then just put a turbo on your petrol engine. The diesel wouldn't have anything if it didn't have a turbo which people seem to forget. A turbo petrol will deliver just as much useable torque as a diesel without having to get to 5000rpm.

So if comparing like for like the only upside to the diesel is its better mpg so that's the reason people choose it.

[davepoth]

Cobnapint said:

I'm not on about emmisions, I'm on about mpg.

And I'm not on about the reasons given for introducing a car, I'm on about the reasons for somebody wanting to buy one.

But in answer to your hat-eating pub quiz forfeit question, how about the recently announced V8 Cayenne diesel S. That kicks out higher emmisions than the existing diesel does.

Humble pie flavoured hats now available to order online.

Emissions and MPG are exactly the same thing in the context of the EU numbers - the emissions are calculated from the same base data.

As for the Cayenne diesel S, I assume it's for people who want the power of a V8, but better mpg?

[Spoof]

Seriously, anything that won't do 100 in under 10 isn't quick?

I've never got out of the E63 in to either my diesel or my wife's and thought, hmmmm these feel really slow now.

Granted they're nowhere near as quick at full tilt, but for 99% of the time on busy public roads, going to the shops, going to work it makes no difference to me. I may as well enjoy the low down effortless torque and save some pennies.

If I had to chose one car to do everything, it'd be a big engined diesel.

[Spoof]

davepoth said:

Cobnapint said:

I'm not on about emmisions, I'm on about mpg.

And I'm not on about the reasons given for introducing a car, I'm on about the reasons for somebody wanting to buy one.

But in answer to your hat-eating pub quiz forfeit question, how about the recently announced V8 Cayenne diesel S. That kicks out higher emmisions than the existing diesel does.

Humble pie flavoured hats now available to order online.

Emissions and MPG are exactly the same thing in the context of the EU numbers - the emissions are calculated from the same base data.

As for the Cayenne diesel S, I assume it's for people who want the power of a V8, but better mpg?

Audi's flagship Q7 V12 TDi then.

[davepoth]

Spoof said:

Audi's flagship Q7 V12 TDi then.

I'd say that's a truck.

[otolith]

Can you buy a Q7 without a doctor's note certifying you as a sociopath?

[vinnie83]

Dave Hedgehog said:

tyrewrecker said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

the series 2 exige does a sub 10 sec 100, so it is acceptable and the 360 reportedly does a 9.2

So anything slower than a Ferrari 360 is slow?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_360

Nearer ten

anything with a 10. something or quicker, is my personal preference

So why have you owned a string of, and currently own by your own standards, a slow car?

The panamera is not fast, but it's plenty quick enough!

[Spoof]

otolith said:

Can you buy a Q7 without a doctor's note certifying you as a sociopath?

If you buy privately .. I believe that's only a dealer requirement.

[Wills2]

Dave Hedgehog said:

by my standards 100 in 15 is very slow

Just not though is it? It's decently quick actually.

[Dave Hedgehog]

vinnie83 said:

So why have you owned a string of, and currently own by your own standards, a slow car?

The panamera is not fast, but it's plenty quick enough!

quick enough for you, but very slow in the context of a 70 grand Porsche

just about all my cars have had at least stage one, the S4 had 620nm of torque

my R32 i would admit is a very slow car, but it fit my requirements and budget at the time

[tyrewrecker]

Wills2 said:

Just not though is it? It's decently quick actually.

Precisely. Clearly trolling

[vinnie83]

Dave Hedgehog said:

vinnie83 said:

So why have you owned a string of, and currently own by your own standards, a slow car?

The panamera is not fast, but it's plenty quick enough!

quick enough for you, but very slow in the context of a 70 grand Porsche

just about all my cars have had at least stage one, the S4 had 620nm of torque

my R32 i would admit is a very slow car, but it fit my requirements and budget at the time

I think the point is that it's quick enough for a daily driver. The point that it's the same price as a GTR but slower is silly, there's plenty of faster cars even cheaper... but the person thinking about buying this car will not be thinking about a GTR!

Maybe a 6 series, 7 series, S class, etc.

All of which are much slower than the GTR.

Porsche make very fast cars, if you want one, go and buy one. They make slower cars for those who have other priorities.

I certainly never felt wanting for more power when I had this car for a few days, as that's simply not the point of the car.

Kind of like me saying that none of your cars are fast enough for me as I have a 997 turbo.. it's irrelevant as they were never meant to compete.

[edo]

As I said before, of course you can always buy a faster car for the same money, but not everyone is doing a track day every day.

Our soon to arrive Diesel Cayenne was chosen because we already have a 5.0 V8 for weekends and trips away. We wanted a comfortable, safe, practical car, that had a lovely interior, good handling (for its class), great residuals, and good range.

If a Diesel Porsche isn't for you, that's fine, buy what you want!

[jbi]

Wills2 said:

Just not though is it? It's decently quick actually.

as previously mentioned in this thread... a bog standard Toyota Camry from the factory will do 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds and the quarter Mile in 14.1

your Porsche is slower than this



and also slower than this honda accord (0-60 mph 6.1 Quarter Mile 14.6)



Even the Honda Odyssey MPV will do 0-60 in 7.3 and the quarter Mile in 15.6

Edited by jbi on Sunday 16th September 14:40

[Cobnapint]

jbi said:

as previously mentioned in this thread... a bog standard Toyota Camry from the factory will do 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds and the quarter Mile in 14.1

your Porsche is slower than this

The 'my car is faster than yours' mindset should be reserved for the school playground, and totally misses the point of the Panny Diesel.

Anybody on here who thinks they can drive around on British roads these days using the full performance potential of their high performance car is living in la-la land. I should know, I've owned a few. You just cannot use the power, unless that is, you have the funds for the speeding fines and driver rehabilitation courses. Not only that, you have to get used to being stared at like you were some kind of anti-social tt. And I should know that as well, because I used to do it.

Perhaps I'm getting old, but the Cayenne diesel I drive at the moment is without any doubt whatsoever, the best daily driver I have ever owned. And I have no reason to doubt the Panamera diesel would merit the same comment.

[jbi]

the point being that some people on here are claiming that the diesel Porsche is quick, and my argument is that when mum in her minivan can keep up with you... it's not.

[Wills2]

jbi said:

Wills2 said:

Just not though is it? It's decently quick actually.

as previously mentioned in this thread... a bog standard Toyota Camry from the factory will do 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds and the quarter Mile in 14.1

your Porsche is slower than this


and also slower than this honda accord (0-60 mph 6.1 Quarter Mile 14.6)


Even the Honda Odyssey MPV will do 0-60 in 7.3 and the quarter Mile in 15.6

Edited by jbi on Sunday 16th September 14:40

It's not my Porsche, but that is besides the point as is your post, not quite sure why you are posting pics and specs of US market 3.5 V6 Toyota's that do 25mpg (at best) that have performance times within a second of the Panamera, do you really think they are competitors?

And how does your tortured comparison negate the fact that the Panamera is still a decently quick car on a par with the other large premium 3.0d cars out there.

All you've done is compare it to other decently quick petrol cars????

Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 16th September 15:24

[jbi]

but are they quick?

I'm looking at this from a global perspective.

Outside of the UK/western Europe... V6 powered cars are the norm.

I suspect Porsche might have trouble selling this diesel version in the rest of the world, where most look at Porsche as a "sports" brand.