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Bloitus

57 posts

48 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
Hmmm... No thanks. I just can't get past those looks.

964Cup

471 posts

122 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
I'm sure it's fast enough, for what it is. I'm not sure what it's for, though, but that applies to all big "sports" saloons. 1.93m wide, 4.97m long. Seats 4. Boot 445 litres. Or for £20k less, you can have a Discovery 4. Slightly wider, slightly shorter, seats 7, boot capacity 1192 litres. If you want to move the family around in comfort at normal motorway speeds in the real world (not the magically empty roads Chris seems to find), why compromise your 90% function with a mythical 10% of fun driving (and have to leave your kids' friends behind)? A Disco will cruise at 90; cruise any faster than that these days and you'll pay for it, unless you live in Germany. Oh, and a Disco has 15hp more than the Porsche, so boo-sucks to you. Shh. Don't mention the 800kg weight penalty...

If you want to go fast, buy a proper fast car. With the change. £20k gets you a decent 996 or a mint 964 with RS-alike bits. A 964 (which has the same power as a Panamera diesel, incidentally) is 30 cm narrower, 60cm shorter, weighs 700kg less *and* still does over 30mpg on the motorway. As if you care on a 6am blat.

And a 964 with 250hp is definitely fast enough.

Which is why mine has 335hp and weighs 1020kg. Ahem.




Stuart

11,585 posts

136 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
Johnboy Mac said:
After hearing that vid, the summary goes something like this:

I'm not friends with Ferrari but as sure as hell I'm not going to fall out with Porsche. The only car anybody needs is a Porsche diesel (because it will do 150+ with an old Audi engine).

Or:

Better a small brown envelope from Porsche than none at all from Ferrari.


Maybe, the above is harsh & incorrect but...
Harsh, incorrect, small minded, ignorant. Where would you like me to stop?

"But......." what? The elipses doesn't forgive making a statement like that.

Really, these comments about Chris are beyond the pale. Would you like me to publicly insinuate that you are corrupt in whatever it is you choose to do for a living?

jackh707

1,667 posts

41 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
Presumably, if this gets trickle down Audi engines, the new 300hp biturbo will be in it fairly soon. Surely that's got to be enough to silence the Cynics once and for all.

I'm just shocked at how flat a 2 ton 5 door saloon can corner and how quickly it turns.

Also compare the performance to 2.7 boxters, 944s, 968s. It's very nearly on the pace/and quicker than some... And from a full blown luxury saloon car that will do 40mpg+. I'm impressed.

Wills2

8,307 posts

60 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
I like the Panamera and yes it's quick enough it's not badly equipped either with Nav, heated leather and auto standard so leave the options alone and it's 63k.

But the faster 530d M sport with the same spec is 46k so it depends if you buy into/want the Porsche driving experience as described by Harris, I suspect over an ownership period of say 3 years the Porsche is worth the extra.





Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 12th September 23:24

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Chris Harris

477 posts

38 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
Biggest problem appears to be the Panam's low-bonnet line: can't fit new Audi bi-turbo or the V8 diesel. Suspect that oversight might cause next version to have a higher bonnet....

Spoof

1,578 posts

100 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
Nice review as usual Chris, don't expect the diesel hate group to be a fan of this though.


Wills2

8,307 posts

60 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
Chris Harris said:
Biggest problem appears to be the Panam's low-bonnet line: can't fit new Audi bi-turbo or the V8 diesel. Suspect that oversight might cause next version to have a higher bonnet....
You could always remap it!

coyft

3,390 posts

96 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
I'd be really interested in a comparative test with the V8. As you say the diesel is fast enough, but how does it compare to the petrol version with regard to feel, power delivery, handling and driving enjoyment? I am lucky enough to have access to a number of different vehicles, I rarely choose the fastest or the best looking. Ease of use, comfort and how the car feels in everyday traffic is often my deciding factor on choice of car.

If you get chance do a back to back test: diesel v petrol.

FisiP1

1,255 posts

38 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
964Cup said:
I'm sure it's fast enough, for what it is. I'm not sure what it's for, though, but that applies to all big "sports" saloons. 1.93m wide, 4.97m long. Seats 4. Boot 445 litres. Or for £20k less, you can have a Discovery 4. Slightly wider, slightly shorter, seats 7, boot capacity 1192 litres. If you want to move the family around in comfort at normal motorway speeds in the real world (not the magically empty roads Chris seems to find), why compromise your 90% function with a mythical 10% of fun driving (and have to leave your kids' friends behind)? A Disco will cruise at 90; cruise any faster than that these days and you'll pay for it, unless you live in Germany. Oh, and a Disco has 15hp more than the Porsche, so boo-sucks to you. Shh. Don't mention the 800kg weight penalty...

If you want to go fast, buy a proper fast car. With the change. £20k gets you a decent 996 or a mint 964 with RS-alike bits. A 964 (which has the same power as a Panamera diesel, incidentally) is 30 cm narrower, 60cm shorter, weighs 700kg less *and* still does over 30mpg on the motorway. As if you care on a 6am blat.

And a 964 with 250hp is definitely fast enough.

Which is why mine has 335hp and weighs 1020kg. Ahem.
Not much point in trying to justify why you can't see a point in this car, when plenty of us in different situations can. The refinement, comfort and interior quality of the Panamera is at least equal to a FFRR anyway(esp. with iso-glass and air suspension), it's in a different league to a Discovery hence being a higher price. If it isn't a very PH car then so be it.

Stuart

11,585 posts

136 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
FisiP1 said:
If it isn't a very PH car then so be it.
I think it's very much a PH car.

leon9191

711 posts

78 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
Great vid chris, but i would have said the question is, is it fast enough for the money, not just is it fast enough. Its not a £70k super saloon but its still £70k. Obviously it offers more than just raw pace as can been seen in your review but as these are all going to be company cars (because who is really going to spend there own money on a diesel porsche saloon) then it might disapoint on performance if the excec who gets one has had something much quicker previously. But as u say 40mpg is nice to have as well.

coyft

3,390 posts

96 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
All these speed merchants on here, where are they in the real world? I've driven over 120k miles in the last 6 years and can count on one hand the number of times I've been overtaken on a single carriage way. I'll admit I don't hang about most of the time, but very rarely am I ever using the full performance capability of the vehicles I'm driving.

peter450

1,434 posts

118 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th September 2012 quote quote all
I just cant get past the cars ungainly looks, but the interior looks great, and performance seems good considering it's size and weight

Gorbyrev

703 posts

39 months

[news] 
Thursday 13th September 2012 quote quote all
Awesome, awesome, awesome. Great write up of a move that had to happen. Was it the BMW Z9 concept coupe that had a diesel engine and started this thing (ignoring the 1930's Indy 500 winner with a Cummins powerplant!)? For now, turbo diesel is the safeguard of guys who love driving but have to face the realities of increasing fuel costs. Just watched Chris' vid for EVO about turbocharged supercars, that surge is addictive, and though diesel powerbands aren't the broadest they have come a long way. We've had fun over the last two days talking about E61 M5's. On a good run 300 miles comes from 70 litres of saudi juice. This Panamera diesel would double that. It is also good to see they used the V6. The V8 Audi 4.2 is a mighty engine but it is even heavier and I'm sure the V6 makes for a sweeter handling thing. Honda turned their attentions to 4 cylinder diesel and made a masterpiece from an engine designer who hated them. Porsche's undoubted engineering prowess is now addressing the mapping and performance of the V6 diesel. New benchmarks will be set. So the guy with a 599 GTB says it's fast enough, I'd go with him. Thanks Chris. Wonder if Graypaul have a demonstrator?

Rawwr

14,397 posts

119 months

[news] 
Thursday 13th September 2012 quote quote all
Don't take this as snarky but I'd be genuinely interested to hear what Porsches Chris doesn't like. Maybe a little 924? 996 C4? smile

hotmelt

861 posts

58 months

[news] 
Thursday 13th September 2012 quote quote all
gaz1234 said:
tractor gt, hmm..
Tractor Gt, I agree, but very good one. But one can buy NA petrol with steel springs and all those good characteristcs he mentions.

ThunderSpook

1,688 posts

96 months

[news] 
Thursday 13th September 2012 quote quote all
Perhaps what Porsche need to do is come up with a more PH name for diesel, kind of what coke did with diet coke when they came up with coke zero.

Panamera black (pump) edition anyone?

elephantstone

1,575 posts

42 months

[news] 
Thursday 13th September 2012 quote quote all
Diesels have their time and place and in a nice handling mile muncher, i reckon this is it. Why not save the extra cash on fuel and probably insurance.. oh and tax? It is not slow and has been getting good mpg so whats the problem?

I was the worlds biggest diesel hater until i got my latest car with the 1.6hdi in it. Quite nippy and not as rough as the older diesels ive driven. The only downside i can see in this type of car is the sound but then again i think a diesel with a quick seamless auto box sounds quite interesting these days with the turbo whilstling etc..

Anyway im waffling...

People should try and open up to diesel i think, maybe not for a real drivers car but for other sectors? yes.

vinnie83

2,994 posts

78 months

[news] 
Thursday 13th September 2012 quote quote all
JS100 said:
For the love of god stop writing on this. In the right hands you can make anything go fast - pointless line of thread. Worthy of comment on the most vile cars of all time website, but not on a site that calls itself pistonheads!
You do realise that a car is not just about speed right?

Many true petrol head cars are not fast!

I had one of these as a courtesy car for nearly a week, shortly after I had the V6 petrol hybrid.

I thought it was a fantastic car!

I actually got better MPG than my 320d, enjoyed driving it far more, and it looked great in black! I got more positive comments in that few days than I remember getting in my 911 in the last year!

If I had the money, I would be seriously considering this car as a daily driver.

I would suggest that in future, if you don't like a particular car, try not to click on a thread about that car - there's plenty on PH about fast supercars for you to read!
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