RE: You Know You Want To: Honda S2000
Discussion
Urban Sports said:
kambites said:
Wonderful engine, but I never really liked anything else about it.
Funny, I thought everything was great about it, the engine was merely good.ETA: To be fair I suppose I do quite like the styling as well.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 16th September 10:00
Bonefish Blues said:
My acid test is a 300+ mile loop into Wales and back, and spending mile after mile in 2nd at c5.5k waiting for an overtaking opportunity was plain wearing.
You could of course have sat in 4th or 5th and changed down when the opportunity arose. It sounds very much as if your driving style wasn't that compatible with anticipation of overtaking opportunities, rather than an issue with the car.10 Pence Short said:
You could of course have sat in 4th or 5th and changed down when the opportunity arose. It sounds very much as if your driving style wasn't that compatible with anticipation of overtaking opportunities, rather than an issue with the car.
Short straights on twisty roads so my preference is always to be in the right gear around the corner so my full concentration is on the overtake decision when it comes. When the overtake wasn't on, then yes I changed up, of course.10 Pence Short said:
In reality, that doesn't sound like "mile after mile in 2nd gear". Maybe you're guilty of over egging the pudding a touch? 
Moi, avec les extra oeufs, how very dare you?In reality I did come back absolutely cream crackered and not looking back with fondness on the drive, which is never the case in cars with different power deliveries (and yes, I did resolve to sell the car straight away). A car to admire rather than particularly engage with, I found.
10 Pence Short said:
Being fair, I think people either get on with that style of power delivery, or they don't. No harm in not enjoying it, as it's a subjective judgement belonging to the person making it.
Personally, I can't stand torque in a sportscar, it completely ruins it for me. I can quite see how someone would want it, though. Munich said:
Didn't Honda sell the S2k with a special ultra quick rack - same sort of system as BMW's "active steering"? Was supposed to have been good.
The speed of the rack isn't the problem, it's the way the EPS system monitors the steering inputs and modulates the amount of assistance. There's a torque sensor on the column that measures the drivers inputs, but it's not very good at distinguishing between genuine driver input and the self aligning torque from the tyres. The result is, as the feedback torque from the tyres rises and falls, the EPS increases and decreases the boost thinking that the driver is tugging on the wheel, and voila, it's filtered out the feedback giving the steering that trademark numb feel. I'm not sure if it was relatively new tech back then, but it didn't belong in a sports car though it is great for your nans grocery getter.The newer systems appear to be much better, the GT86 seems a prime example.
Olivera said:
Are these engines genuinely fragile above 100k miles? So much for the oft-stated Honda reliability!
If you buy one of the last cars (08/09) they are fragile with minimal miles !!!There appears to be a manufacturing defect on some of the last engines made (bottom end failure). There is a very long running thread on S2Ki and it makes for scary reading !
There are many engine failures and the replacement engines also go pop !!! There are a couple of people on their 3rd or 4th engine in relatively low mileage 08/09 cars.
Honda have managed the issues and not admitted to any fault on the cars. Make up your own mind. I wouldn't touch one of the last cars with a barge pole !!!
Honda's "legendary" reliability does not apply to the last cars (probably due to cost cutting/ skimping on the manufacturing process when production was coming to an end)
Red 4 said:
If you buy one of the last cars (08/09) they are fragile with minimal miles !!!
There appears to be a manufacturing defect on some of the last engines made (bottom end failure). There is a very long running thread on S2Ki and it makes for scary reading !
There are many engine failures and the replacement engines also go pop !!! There are a couple of people on their 3rd or 4th engine in relatively low mileage 08/09 cars.
Honda have managed the issues and not admitted to any fault on the cars. Make up your own mind. I wouldn't touch one of the last cars with a barge pole !!!
Honda's "legendary" reliability does not apply to the last cars (probably due to cost cutting/ skimping on the manufacturing process when production was coming to an end)
That's correct avoid the late ones as they are going pop. As for the engines being fragile over 100K its all down to the maintenance and how its been looked after. There have been some on S2ki that have done big mileages (albeit well looked after).There appears to be a manufacturing defect on some of the last engines made (bottom end failure). There is a very long running thread on S2Ki and it makes for scary reading !
There are many engine failures and the replacement engines also go pop !!! There are a couple of people on their 3rd or 4th engine in relatively low mileage 08/09 cars.
Honda have managed the issues and not admitted to any fault on the cars. Make up your own mind. I wouldn't touch one of the last cars with a barge pole !!!
Honda's "legendary" reliability does not apply to the last cars (probably due to cost cutting/ skimping on the manufacturing process when production was coming to an end)
Drove my MY00 in the pooring rain today. Loved every minute. A well geo'd S2k is so much fun on the limit and easy to feel the balance of. I totally agree the steering is devoid of feel but when the car is set up correctly you provoke with the gas and steer on the throttle feeling it through the seat of the pants. Great fun.
yonex said:
Yes, you are right about the geo on the dealer cars they were all stock. At the time I hadn't really done lots of research into them and it was only when the integra went in for a service I would get thrown the keys.
I bought a standard 03, and bought on condition despite it feeling more 'leaden' than the other two (02 and 04) I'd driven (felt rather understeery, throttle wouldn't bring the back into play at all in the dry, steering very numb) - I knew I could sort the handling out through geo.Cue a day with CentreGravity discussing exactly what I was after (done some research on geo effects beforehand), and even on the short test-drive before Chris let me take it away for good, you could FEEL the difference:-
- reduced rear camber meant that you could feel the rear 'take an attitude' as you applied more right foot...useful tell-tale that the back-end was loaded.
- reduced rear toe-in probably helped here too.
- reduced castor improved the steering feel.
It STILL didn't feel as 'organic' or sorted as my old DC2, hence why I got another DC2 when I could, but it WAS quicker, it WAS a soft-top, and it WAS still a lot of fun. Cross-bracing front and rear helped a little further - felt more 'at one' with the road, certainly up to 8/10ths or 9/10ths, and gave a little more feedback through seat and wheel.
If this is someone's idea of 'modding', then walk away. But for me it was a couple of very minor investments to sort the car out properly...nothing that a Caterham, Elise or MX5 owner wouldn't consider. And it worked - gave me a lot more confidence in the car, albeit still didn't try drifting it (dirt and snow excepted).
Owned a 99 for 6 months as a daily driver. Took a month to get used to not using the steering to feel the limit of grip. Engine and gearbox are fantastic. There is no risk of a better 2.0 l na engine ever being made. Chassis balance is sublime. Cost of insurance reflects lack of traction control and step change in horsepower at 6000rpm. Not the best on motorways due to noise.
Overall I believe that if it had been made with hydraulic pas it could have been one of the greatest drivers cars ever made. As it is its still fantastic.
Overall I believe that if it had been made with hydraulic pas it could have been one of the greatest drivers cars ever made. As it is its still fantastic.
havoc said:
But for me it was a couple of very minor investments to sort the car out properly...nothing that a Caterham, Elise or MX5 owner wouldn't consider. And it worked - gave me a lot more confidence in the car, albeit still didn't try drifting it (dirt and snow excepted).
Yes but you bought another DC2 despite these improvements. If I had the choice between the two I would do the same although a sorted S2 has the ingredients of a decent car, althogh as I have already said one that is eclipsed by its peers.I think there are very many people who are front drive demons, but have real trouble adapting to rear drive, & things like the S2k in particular, so don't like the car. That's fine, why should they try to get to like something, which does not really suit them. I have driven a lot of quick RWD stuff, & find the S2k a delightful if rather unforgiving bundle of fun.
Sure you can't steer it on throttle like my 4.6L V8 320+ bhp TR8, & yes the steering is too quick & too light to my likings, & very dead, but tell me one car that has ever given you everything perfectly. A car designed to maintain high mid corner speeds, it does not respond well to the slow in, & heaps of throttle on the way out, that works so well with front drive, but if you use it's abilities it's great.
It does turn in brilliantly, & the balance through medium to quick stuff is beautiful. Yes it does require concentration when driven quickly, but isn't that what we want with performance cars? There are plenty of other cars that will allow the driver to kid himself he's the next Fangio, at quite low, & safe cornering forces.
I love the way it can do such a good impersonation of the wife's Mazda 2, puttering quietly around the town when asked. To most people I can be another hairdresser, in my early MX5, something the deep rumble of the V8 in the Triumph makes impossible, even in the car park.
Any PH-er should know that a manual revving to 9000RPM is going to be a pain in stop start traffic, but if that's not something you do too often, then an S2K may be your ideal car.
Sure you can't steer it on throttle like my 4.6L V8 320+ bhp TR8, & yes the steering is too quick & too light to my likings, & very dead, but tell me one car that has ever given you everything perfectly. A car designed to maintain high mid corner speeds, it does not respond well to the slow in, & heaps of throttle on the way out, that works so well with front drive, but if you use it's abilities it's great.
It does turn in brilliantly, & the balance through medium to quick stuff is beautiful. Yes it does require concentration when driven quickly, but isn't that what we want with performance cars? There are plenty of other cars that will allow the driver to kid himself he's the next Fangio, at quite low, & safe cornering forces.
I love the way it can do such a good impersonation of the wife's Mazda 2, puttering quietly around the town when asked. To most people I can be another hairdresser, in my early MX5, something the deep rumble of the V8 in the Triumph makes impossible, even in the car park.
Any PH-er should know that a manual revving to 9000RPM is going to be a pain in stop start traffic, but if that's not something you do too often, then an S2K may be your ideal car.
Munich said:
Didn't Honda sell the S2k with a special ultra quick rack - same sort of system as BMW's "active steering"? Was supposed to have been good.
Yes. I drove a few when I used to work with imports, picked them up from the docks etc.I believe they were badged 'VGS', and had the same embossed on the steering wheel - which happened to be a very small 'kart' type affair.
I believe they were around 1.5turns lock to lock. it was ridiculous, very much like a go-kart indeed.
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