RE: You Know You Want To: Honda S2000

RE: You Know You Want To: Honda S2000

Author
Discussion

rallycross

12,747 posts

236 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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Kozy said:
This interests me, I wonder how many people given a budget of £5k would take a DC2 over an S2K. Sounds like you possibly would?
They are very different things, the S2000 is a nice convertible with a great engine and the Dc2 is an out and out drivers car.
The Integra Type R is one of the best handling /well sorted saloon based chassis you will find anywhere, even compared to newer stuff, it gives a level of feel and feedback that is on a different planet to the S2000. You can drive the wheels off Integra Type R and enjoy it to its limits at which point it comes alive in your hands.

If I wanted another convertible I'd still condsider getting another S2000 as they are such good value now but for fun driving I'd be buying another Integra.

havoc

29,929 posts

234 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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Kozy said:
havoc said:
But I push the ITR harder than I've any right to get away with, and still manage to get away with it every time...
This interests me, I wonder how many people given a budget of £5k would take a DC2 over an S2K. Sounds like you possibly would?
Unequivocally yes!

In principle I should prefer rwd, and the S is quicker, gripping, has a better 'box and a rag top.

BUT...the DC2 is one if those cars they got just so right. Mid-range is rather thin when in pressing on mode, but that's probably my only criticism. Oh, and the diff can sometimes take a split second to 'unlock' if you're being very aggressive through long or tight 2nd gear corners, e.g. right turns at a roundabout. Everything else is either very good or excellent - steering feel and response, throttle response, brake feel and power, repeat direction change ability, mid-corner balance, ability to adjust attitude via the throttle, and the general 'docility' of the package - that you know it's on your side in the way a bone-stock early S2000 isn't. It even sounds good for a 4-pot. Scrub that, on VTEC it sounds better than half the modern, sanitised 6s and 8s out there.

I ran both at the same time for about 2 years, each had it's moments of brilliance, and up to 8/10th the S is a wonderful bit of kit. But I kept the 'teg!

Kozy

3,169 posts

217 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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havoc said:
Unequivocally yes!

In principle I should prefer rwd, and the S is quicker, gripping, has a better 'box and a rag top.

BUT...the DC2 is one if those cars they got just so right. Mid-range is rather thin when in pressing on mode, but that's probably my only criticism. Oh, and the diff can sometimes take a split second to 'unlock' if you're being very aggressive through long or tight 2nd gear corners, e.g. right turns at a roundabout. Everything else is either very good or excellent - steering feel and response, throttle response, brake feel and power, repeat direction change ability, mid-corner balance, ability to adjust attitude via the throttle, and the general 'docility' of the package - that you know it's on your side in the way a bone-stock early S2000 isn't. It even sounds good for a 4-pot. Scrub that, on VTEC it sounds better than half the modern, sanitised 6s and 8s out there.

I ran both at the same time for about 2 years, each had it's moments of brilliance, and up to 8/10th the S is a wonderful bit of kit. But I kept the 'teg!
Oh you git. I really, really want a nice, standard 98 Spec.

TameRacingDriver

18,048 posts

271 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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Kozy said:
Oh you git. I really, really want a nice, standard 98 Spec.
Do it!

I had one. Utterly fantastic car. As I always said, forget that its FWD. It really doesn't matter. Brilliant handling, and a mental engine, cheap to run, and totally reliable.

Kozy

3,169 posts

217 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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I can't right now, need a sensible family car so got an ATR instead, it's not a bad compromise to be fair!

The whole FWD<RWD thing never washed with me anyway. Decent FWDs are far more fun than mediocre RWDs. I guess the S2000 ranks only as mediocre owing to it's... well whatever it is that people say is wrong with it.

Too Late

5,092 posts

234 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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How cheap are the 350z's at the moment.

HOLLY MOLLY!!
what a car for the money. i remember buying one 3 or 4 years ago for 13k!!!

I was looking at a vx220 but now im shifting my attention to this!

Kozy

3,169 posts

217 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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Too Late said:
How cheap are the 350z's at the moment.

HOLLY MOLLY!!
what a car for the money. i remember buying one 3 or 4 years ago for 13k!!!

I was looking at a vx220 but now im shifting my attention to this!
Cool story bro'. Wrong thread though?

Too Late

5,092 posts

234 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
quotequote all
Kozy said:
Too Late said:
How cheap are the 350z's at the moment.

HOLLY MOLLY!!
what a car for the money. i remember buying one 3 or 4 years ago for 13k!!!

I was looking at a vx220 but now im shifting my attention to this!
Cool story bro'. Wrong thread though?
Cool reply bro', this was in response to the 5the post on this thread to the chap who listed the 350z, s2000 and z4. I was just shocked at how the prices have nose dived over the past 3-4 years.


stew-S160

8,006 posts

237 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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ady_GTi said:
Kozy said:
havoc said:
But I push the ITR harder than I've any right to get away with, and still manage to get away with it every time...
This interests me, I wonder how many people given a budget of £5k would take a DC2 over an S2K. Sounds like you possibly would?
I would without a question, much preferred my DC2 to my current S2k. Have never felt totally comfortable with the S2k its a good 8/10ths car but seems to come apart when you really get after it. The DC2 you knew exactly where you were with it, which makes so much difference when you were pushing on.
Having owned both, and with a £5k budget, a DC2 would be my choice. I'd generally take RWD over FWD as a basic requirement, but the DC2 is special.

havoc

29,929 posts

234 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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stew-S160 said:
...but the DC2 is special.
Yeah, which is why I'm so reluctant to sell mine once I've found a 'family car'. But we can't have 4 cars and, well, if I sell the NSX I may never get another...

stew-S160

8,006 posts

237 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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havoc said:
stew-S160 said:
...but the DC2 is special.
Yeah, which is why I'm so reluctant to sell mine once I've found a 'family car'. But we can't have 4 cars and, well, if I sell the NSX I may never get another...
It's also why I want another.

2hondadave

71 posts

190 months

Friday 21st September 2012
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havoc said:
Did either of you a) fit cross-braces or b) adjust the geometry to REDUCE grip?
- no, mine is a 2001 with the original geo, it dives the way I like it so I have left it alone. I have been 'thinking' of have it checked/changed for a couple of years... should get around to it really. I did deliberately fit rubbish tires to my audi quattro before that to reduce grip, but that's another story!

havoc said:
Final comment - some owners have removed/replaced the rear suspension link that increases toe-in under compression...which increases mid-corner stability, but upon release of compression (e.g. lifting off the throttle mid-corner) gives a sudden reduction in rear grip... idea
(It's a carry-over from some fwd fast Hondas, where it works beautifully...not 100% certain about it's applicability to rwd...OK if you know about it, IYSWIM)
- I've read about that, but to be honest now that I'm used to it, I don't find it an issue, I drive around mid corner bumps, mostly because I only push on roads I know 'really' well for the most part. If I were coming at it fresh I may have gone for both of these changes, now I just leave it alone and drive it (far too infrequently these days as I'm working away)

Oh and while I'm writing, someone asked if you can get classic car insurance on an S yet. The answer is yes! Mine is now over 10, and insured on a classic policy with Footman James. Limited mileage, but that suits fine right now... Less than half the price of the renewal, which wasn't too bad in itself.

AshVX220

5,929 posts

189 months

Friday 21st September 2012
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Too Late said:
How cheap are the 350z's at the moment.

HOLLY MOLLY!!
what a car for the money. i remember buying one 3 or 4 years ago for 13k!!!

I was looking at a vx220 but now im shifting my attention to this!
VX's and Elise's are entirely different animals to the S2K's, 350z'z and Z4's etc.

Nothing in that ilk, will come close to a VX or Elise for "driver feel" unless it's been played with.

Hasbeen

2,073 posts

220 months

Saturday 22nd September 2012
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havoc said:
Maverick / Dave - agree with a lot of what you've both posted. Tyres and geo both seem to make an inordinate difference with the car.

Did either of you a) fit cross-braces or b) adjust the geometry to REDUCE grip?

I did both - before, with 03MY geometry (granny-spec, safe-safe-safe-snappy) and S02s, I didn't really dare push it. After, initially still on S02's, then on T1R's, I felt I could 'play' on wide roundabouts, known corners, etc...but still not on unknown roads. Never span it though...so all of that should give you some idea how I felt about the car*

I've posted my thoughts earlier - that the car needs bracing AND setting-up to suit the owner*. I reduced both camber and rear-toe-in, which made the overall limits lower and the rear break-away earlier (and therefore more progressive). Still had too much dry grip, but was less snappy as a result...OE spec of 2-degrees rear camber, combined with the high factory toe-in, was always going to give perhaps too much grip.

Final comment - some owners have removed/replaced the rear suspension link that increases toe-in under compression...which increases mid-corner stability, but upon release of compression (e.g. lifting off the throttle mid-corner) gives a sudden reduction in rear grip... idea
(It's a carry-over from some fwd fast Hondas, where it works beautifully...not 100% certain about it's applicability to rwd...OK if you know about it, IYSWIM)



* Equally, I don't dare push the NSX any harder than I did the S2000 - possibly due to rarity / repair costs as much as ability, but as a point-of-reference for anyone reading. But I push the ITR harder than I've any right to get away with, and still manage to get away with it every time...
I have to say that I think some of you blokes are describing what I mentioned in my first post. The S2k does not respond at all well to the slow in, fast out technique, that I think many are using. Drive your S that way & it will bite you. Powering out from too low mid corner speed will give you the snap rear end breakaway, which few can catch. Even for those who can catch it, the thing will usually snap back, & spin the other way.

Note this is breakaway, not oversteer. If you are traveling faster, closer to the limit of the front, it can still get nasty, but gives much better balance & feed back. It will usually understeer, before over steering, but the tendency to sudden breakaway is greatly reduced.

In 62 I took delivery of a new Morgan +4. I was impressed, but a little worried as well. Going into corners at somewhat above MG A speed, just like the S, it would snap breakaway at the rear, & I had no doubt it was going to get me. I went racing to learn to drive it, where there was nothing coming the other way.

By the third meeting I was experiencing huge understeer on all but the fastest corners. There was no chance of loosing the rear, when I had to catch up to the front first. It was all a matter of corner entrance & mid corner speed. Once you were fast enough, the snap rear breakaway was gone. It took a year & lots of work to get both ends to work together.

This is why so many consider the S a better track car, which of course it is. It really is not a car for the inexperienced to try limit driving on the road. I have quite a bit of experience, but at my age I would not try to drive the S at it's limit on the public road. That's where my 4.6L TR8 comes in. This thing, although much modified, & pretty quick, is a pussycat, more suited to my remaining ability.

I have a nice Jag XK140 picked out for my next car. It's tail happy handling, on skinny tyres, at quite low speeds will suit where my reaction times are going.

elementad

625 posts

149 months

Saturday 22nd September 2012
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I had no problems whatsoever with the handling of my old S2000 (04 model).

They arent really for drifting round corners, and I think the crash stories and spin stories happen in most cases when people have driven a little bit too enthusiastically without being the driver they think they are.

Damn good car and would have one again

chrisbvincent

3 posts

169 months

Tuesday 11th December 2012
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I had two s2000s great great great car never give any bother apart from back brakes are poor but very easy on the pocket I miss them.

RobbyJ

1,566 posts

221 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
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Gorbyrev said:
Somewhere in the back of my memory is a stat that says over 1,000,000 V-TEC engines made and not a single warranty claim. Bit thirsty (what to expect from 9000rpm), high insurance group but great car for the money. Two neighbours have them. One of them has a sobering / fun story about spinning on a roundabout. Perhaps a great 8/10th car? Can't grumble for £4000 as you'll get a lot of that back at sale time. Didn't Vicky BH run one of these?
Well the engine exploded in mine on the M4, pistons through the block job! I had been pushing on in a little play with an XJR but then settled back into a cruise and bang. On the back of a tow truck back to the garage in London and the engine was replaced for a new one under warranty in a day! Great service but it was never a car I enjoyed, the handling was too nervous and it aquaplaned like a bh at anything above 60mph. I've spouted on about my dislike for the S2000 in the past so I'll leave it there but it's certainly not a car I'd recommend to any petrol head unless you like pottering around with the roof down and nothing more.

mikey k

13,011 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
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hehe

I'm on number 5
Never lost an engine (there was a bath of 09 cars that suffered big end failures)
Twitchy ones are soon sorted with a proper 4 wheel alignment and correct/better tyres
They do need to be thrashed to "make progress" with can catch some RWD newbies out
The VTEC reliability claim is smoke and mirrors, yes the vtec valve train itself is reliable but not so much the engines Honda bolt it to wink
The F20C in the S2000 is unique to the car and doesn't always take high mileage well frown

Janosh

1,735 posts

166 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
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RobbyJ said:
Well the engine exploded in mine on the M4, pistons through the block job! I had been pushing on in a little play with an XJR but then settled back into a cruise and bang. On the back of a tow truck back to the garage in London and the engine was replaced for a new one under warranty in a day! Great service but it was never a car I enjoyed, the handling was too nervous and it aquaplaned like a bh at anything above 60mph. I've spouted on about my dislike for the S2000 in the past so I'll leave it there but it's certainly not a car I'd recommend to any petrol head unless you like pottering around with the roof down and nothing more.
As many people have already said, they are very sensitive to setup. I drove my back from the 'ring in pissing rain and it was perfectly stable at 130kph+.

The geo had been recently setup by TGM and it was running new Eagle F1's on all 4 corners.

That said I now have a big heavy RWD car and understand why people say that the S2000 is snappy on the limit...

For the money, it's a great car thumbup

RobbyJ

1,566 posts

221 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
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I had mine 4 wheels aligned twice, it could have been in a crash at some stage before I owned it because it never handled well. It was the first RWD car I'd owned but I wasn't new to RWD cars having driven all sorts from Ferrari's to Ultima's. Just never warmed to it as the high speed handling was just scary.