RE: BMW puts the OBD fix in
Discussion
I guess no clever sould figured out we could put fever electronic gizmos in the cars instead.
People, it's a friggin COMPUTER inside a car. See how easy it is to hack a normal one? How easy it is to get a virus? And that's remotely! Every security specialist will tell you that if someone has physical access to your computer, they will do whatever they want and no security will stop them!
What did you expect when you put something like it in a car? Totally unprotected too.
Why have the ODB2 live all the time? Makes no sense unless you're logging data all the time (Garmin makes modules for their satanv that do that). Just protect the damn port. It won't help if thieves replace entire ECU as it is possiblie with some cars but still better than nothing.
Preventing people from buying diagnostic equipment won't help.
Thieves will simply STEAL them from dealerships if they want to!
People, it's a friggin COMPUTER inside a car. See how easy it is to hack a normal one? How easy it is to get a virus? And that's remotely! Every security specialist will tell you that if someone has physical access to your computer, they will do whatever they want and no security will stop them!
What did you expect when you put something like it in a car? Totally unprotected too.
Why have the ODB2 live all the time? Makes no sense unless you're logging data all the time (Garmin makes modules for their satanv that do that). Just protect the damn port. It won't help if thieves replace entire ECU as it is possiblie with some cars but still better than nothing.
Preventing people from buying diagnostic equipment won't help.
Thieves will simply STEAL them from dealerships if they want to!
Funnily enough I've just renewed the insurance on my M5, the price fell by almost £200 compared to last year, that said the price would have dropped by over £250 if I'd said that I kept my car on the drive instead of the garage... oh the irony.
edb49 said:
I predict in the next 12 months BMW will have written to all owners of affected cars and invite them back to the dealerships to get the problem solved. This issue isn't going to go away for BMW, and if it's not corrected it will snowball out of control. (More press reports of stolen BMWs, increased premiums, windows being smashed on 'fixed' cars but not being nicked...)
Chris Harris said:
Another area of interest is car finance. With the majority of new car purchases being on the dreaded 'drip', those few post-Lehman bankers still willing to lend on cars want better tools for recovering defaulted assets. This OBD trick is perfect for them. If it was a condition for the initial loan, its potential removal through legislation (should the manufacturers persuade the Eurocrats to take action) may well persuade more banks to reconsider the car loan business. Of course, many brands underwrite their own finance and simply keep a spare key.
And Pistonheads hits tabloid rock bottom. That's just making stuff up that people can rant about... No bailiff I know of would use one of these. They just ask for the keys and turn up with a low loader and a warrant of execution if needed. If they really need a key they just go to the manufacturer with the VIN and get one made.Edited by PaulMoor on Friday 14th September 14:22
Adrian W said:
BMW should be made to replace or pay for every car stolen using the key reprogrammer.
How can anyone prove that every car thats gone missing has been as a result of a key programmer though? A car that's gone missing without keys could have been lifted/dragged away - It's still wothout keys, but unless the car is recovered, there is no way of proving it.Yes, it's more likely to have been done using the key programming method, but proving it is something entirely different.
The bigger question is, what happens when the people that cracked the last security program crack the new one as well?
Adrian W said:
BMW should be made to replace or pay for every car stolen using the key reprogrammer.
this is the most ridiculous statement i have heard. Its like saying if your watch is stolen tag should give you a new one. a thief has worked out a way to crack the security, if it was virus software you pay norton an annual subscription!Belliio said:
this is the most ridiculous statement i have heard. Its like saying if your watch is stolen tag should give you a new one. a thief has worked out a way to crack the security, if it was virus software you pay norton an annual subscription!
I don't think they have cracked the security, other than the alarm not sounding when a window is broken and someone accesses the OBD port.There's no hacking. Other than breaking the window the system is wide open. Not hacked, just left open by BMW.
And when BMW were made aware of it what did they do?
Cheib said:
Dear Pistonheads Towers,
Despite specificually being asked to and a 90 page thread having been running on this forum for seveal months there has be absolutely no coverage of this issue as a news item until now. The day BMW announce a fix you gibve it coverage.
Frankly I find it incredibly disappointing that the first day you give it coverage is the day there is positive news from BMW. You could have done your many members a huge service by publicising this much earlier, some of them may have been able to avoid having their cars stolen.
The only conclusion to draw is that the relationship with BMW is worth more than the reltionship with the thousands of members of Pistonheads
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25953Despite specificually being asked to and a 90 page thread having been running on this forum for seveal months there has be absolutely no coverage of this issue as a news item until now. The day BMW announce a fix you gibve it coverage.
Frankly I find it incredibly disappointing that the first day you give it coverage is the day there is positive news from BMW. You could have done your many members a huge service by publicising this much earlier, some of them may have been able to avoid having their cars stolen.
The only conclusion to draw is that the relationship with BMW is worth more than the reltionship with the thousands of members of Pistonheads
Belliio said:
Adrian W said:
BMW should be made to replace or pay for every car stolen using the key reprogrammer.
this is the most ridiculous statement i have heard. Its like saying if your watch is stolen tag should give you a new one. a thief has worked out a way to crack the security, if it was virus software you pay norton an annual subscription!Adrian W said:
Belliio said:
Adrian W said:
BMW should be made to replace or pay for every car stolen using the key reprogrammer.
this is the most ridiculous statement i have heard. Its like saying if your watch is stolen tag should give you a new one. a thief has worked out a way to crack the security, if it was virus software you pay norton an annual subscription!Who wins?
BMW? Customers? Insurers? Criminals?
Its a cycle of car theft.Car theft will always exist no matter what measures are put in place.If they want it they will take it.
I was around in the 80's when anything that had an XR or RS or GTI on it went of peoples drivesway in masses.
These people had cliffords dogs b
ks alarms and immobilisers and they still got stolen.
My own Xr2 had masses of stereo system nicked with no alarm going off and it had a dogs bks clifford alarm system.
There is always people out there who will always be one step ahead of any marques secruity systems and exploit it for their own gain.
For a while secruity was so good people had houses broken into,beaten up for keys.
Now for a while they dont have too.
I know which method I prefer if they ever want my car/future cars.
This fix will be shortlived imo. The code(s) will be broken again.
I was around in the 80's when anything that had an XR or RS or GTI on it went of peoples drivesway in masses.
These people had cliffords dogs b
ks alarms and immobilisers and they still got stolen.My own Xr2 had masses of stereo system nicked with no alarm going off and it had a dogs b
ks clifford alarm system.There is always people out there who will always be one step ahead of any marques secruity systems and exploit it for their own gain.
For a while secruity was so good people had houses broken into,beaten up for keys.
Now for a while they dont have too.
I know which method I prefer if they ever want my car/future cars.
This fix will be shortlived imo. The code(s) will be broken again.
Panda76 said:
This fix will be shortlived imo. The code(s) will be broken again.
that does not have to be the case, if they implemented a decent one-way, one-time encription key to the CAS module, this problem would go away.Yes, it would potentially cause issues years down the line when BMW dont give a stuff about a 15+ year old car and stop providing the keys, but it would make cracking it way beyond the roadside thief.
kambites said:
Why can't BMW, at least on new cars, just fit an alarm that actually works properly?
problem with that is who takes any notice of a car alarm, and even if they do, what are they going to do about it?night + several hooded thugs vs. non-powerfully built employee
unless your suggesting the Tony Martin approach?
405dogvan said:
Lost the ability to be civil and not condescend to people who don't live on these forums?
Try going outside and talking to real people - if you speak to them like that, they'll kick your teeth in
Offensive post, we live in dark caves with just a laptop for a friend.Try going outside and talking to real people - if you speak to them like that, they'll kick your teeth in
TX.
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