RE: Honda WILL make a new Civic Type R

RE: Honda WILL make a new Civic Type R

Author
Discussion

davidcharles

400 posts

193 months

Monday 24th September 2012
quotequote all
otolith said:
I would say that if they are making noises about chasing ring records, yes, that is an indication that they are considering refocusing the Type-R brand on credible track performance rather than the GTi-rivalling trim level it has become.
...only if you bought the GT spec of the previous type r...people seem to forget there was a standard type r and a gt trim level of the fn2.....the gt spec sold in bucket loads as it is what the vast majority of people wanted.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 24th September 2012
quotequote all
The GT just had more toys, the base car was not remotely "stripped out".

Unreal1066

33 posts

141 months

Monday 24th September 2012
quotequote all
Imagine if they did another 1.6L N/A motor it could be another B16 engine. This could sit as an option in the new Type R's. The more power crew may shout it down and just look slow compared the turbo motor and not sell very well. MR2's had two engine options the N/A was a great motor very responsive but far less desiarable for many prospective buyers.
Can you imagine what a Honda dealership looked like in the early 2000s you would have Civic Type R's, Accord R, Prelude 2.2L S2000's, Integra's maybe even an NSX. A far cry from today. I know I bought an Civic FN2 about a month ago.

davidcharles

400 posts

193 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
quotequote all
otolith said:
The GT just had more toys, the base car was not remotely "stripped out".

I agree, Honda's mistake wasn't the gt spec but the standard type r.

RocketRabbit

79 posts

160 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
quotequote all
havoc said:
I have to disagree. The B18C has more character, better throttle-response and a lot better reliability. The (very minor) mid-range gains really aren't worth it, IMHO...
The K20 is lighter, has a 6 speed box, has chain driven cams, roller valve train, adjustable inlet cam timing, better bore/stroke ratio.

The only reason you'd get a B18 is because it's easier to fit into an earlier car.

K20s have 'reliability' issues entirely down to owners letting them run dry of oil or over revving them - DC2 ITRs never had such an idiot userbase as the Breadvans.

The other good thing about the K20 is that it spins the right way, although so does the F20C which is quite simply the best engine Honda have put in a road car and it was never in a Type-R!

Grovsie26

1,302 posts

166 months

Wednesday 26th September 2012
quotequote all
Yes Havoc of course, iam always singing the praises of VAG engines compared to a Honda engine, doh.

The engine is good but it's not as good as a K20a. You can't compare throttle response and character in different cars with different flywheels, etc.

Try a DC5 with a B18c in, or a DC2 with a K20. It's much easier/better to mod, has more more power, more torque, and much more mid range grunt. On what planet is the older engine better?

havoc

29,929 posts

234 months

Thursday 27th September 2012
quotequote all
Erm, character*, throttle-response and reliability...which I've now said 3x and you keep ignoring in favour of "mid-range" and "ease of modding". banghead

On paper the K20A is superior, yes. But on paper the BMW N53 3.0 petrol engine (the direct-injection one) is superior to the N52 (normal EFI with valvetronic), yet go onto any BMW forum and listen to N53 owners gripe about the N53...it's not ALL about the stats, as I suspect a large % of PH'ers will tell you.


But if you prefer the K20A that's fine...it'd be boring if we were all the same. Just don't tell me I'm wrong for preferring the B18C6, nor for judging it better under my criteria!




* Especially sound...and PLEASE don't say you can mod the K20A to sound better, as there are many people who don't WANT to modify their car.

Grovsie26

1,302 posts

166 months

Saturday 29th September 2012
quotequote all
Reliabilty? This hasn't got anything to do with the fact there are probably 10 K20 lumps out there for every B18? The K20 is bullet proof if looked after properly with oil.

Throttle response i did not ignore, looks like you did though, 2 different cars, and im sure the DC2 has a lighter flywheel for a start.

Character? Again that just bks IMO. Noise is completey subjective. The CTR has a more restrictive exhaust, and more sound deadening.



Edited by Grovsie26 on Saturday 29th September 19:40