RE: Honda WILL make a new Civic Type R

[ukmike2000]

Performance will be scintillating but the last two Civics have been so terminally ugly that it still won't make me buy one. The Civic Type R Mark 1 is still King.

[otolith]

ukmike2000 said:

Performance will be scintillating but the last two Civics have been so terminally ugly that it still won't make me buy one. The Civic Type R Mark 1 is still King.

None of them have been anything special to look at, IMO. EK9, EP3, FN2, FD2.

[Gooly]

Yes but at least they weren't especially ugly like the last two generations of civics have been. The EP3 was a little bit boring but it wasn't ugly by any means, the current civic and the last gen are horribly proportioned and over-styled IMO.

[Marf]

StottyZr said:

This reminds me, whatever happened to the CRZ Mugen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-rvMzcpbsU

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/09/the-mugen-rz-is-coming/

[Fantuzzi]

doogz said:

No, it's 310bhp from a 1.6 litre engine in a race car.

Which isn't really the same thing, is it?

Alfa got 180bhp from a 1.3...at 9000rpm!

Now thats impressive...

(Alfa GTA junior 1300)

[Kozy]

Buzz word said:

Just a feeling. The highest specific output engine I know of is the fq400 which was a special edition and had a service interval of 5k miles which i think suggests it was quite tightly wound. At that specific output a 1.6 could make 240hp.

Maths isn't your strong point is it?

400bhp/2 litres = 200bhp/litre.

1.6 litres x 200bhp/litre = 320bhp.

Durzel said:

It'll be for naught if they continue their recent tradition of cost-cutting at the expense of overall driveability...

Case in point Torsion beam suspension in the new Civic vs the McPherson independent struts in the preceding model.

Macphersons are nothing spectacular, the real bdisation was moving the all round double wishbone suspension from the <2000 models.

Edited by Kozy on Friday 21st September 14:40

[tommy vercetti]

Don't really give a crap about the ring time, but glad there is going to be another Civic type R. Don't like the looks though, best looking one was the EP3, imo.

[StottyZr]

Marf said:

StottyZr said:

This reminds me, whatever happened to the CRZ Mugen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-rvMzcpbsU

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/09/the-mugen-rz-is-coming/

Response in the comments section of that page. A little off topic but...

Guy said said:

You guys have to remember that Honda is a company. They need to make money. We (enthusiasts) are only a tiny market segment and it would be idiotic to spend money in research to cater to us.

Yes, I want a k20 CR-Z. I, too, cry for the S2000 to come back. I want to go back to the days of hearing a high strung Honda screaming for its life approaching 9,000 rpm from factory. I want the Integra R to come back. I want the HSV-010 instead of this new NSX slated to come out in the near future.

But it won't happen. Why? Because the old lady who has a Civic for reliability and fuel economy doesn't care about VTEC, or speeds in excess of 60 miles an hour. Honda makes their money from those who need practical, reliable, efficient cars. When they have a little money on the side, then they'll turn to us and give us performance-oriented cars.

We also have to stop trying to relive 1990-2001. The golden era is over, time goes on. American cars aren't stty anymore and European cars have long since overcome their massive electrical issues. This hybrid stuff may throw us off a little, but look at Audi. They're out there winning races with e-tron. And we love to drool over BMW's i8 concept. I'm sure Honda will step up.

You can't fight the future. Remember when paddle shifters started appearing in high end sports cars? Many of us disliked it, but now even a Hyundai Elantra comes with paddle shifters. (Off topic: I still think the Ferrari 458 should have the option of an H-pattern.)

He talks a lot of sense.

[motor mad]

Lunar Tick said:

motor mad said:

Good news. All Honda need to do then is sort out an S2000 replacement, Integra DC5 replacement, put the engine mentioned in this article in the CR-Z and crack on with releasing the NSX.

Well some say the JDM FD2 Civic (what I have) was effectively the replacement for the DC5. It's up there with the very best Type-Rs - some say it is the very best.

Back on topic, although I'm sad about the demise of the K20A (one of the greatest production engines ever), I see no reason why Honda can't engineer a 1.6 turbo that delivers north of 250bhp with superb reliability

I was referring to a 2 door coupe as opposed to a four door. K20 in a DC2. That would be the best.

[Ali_T]

Fantuzzi said:

Alfa got 180bhp from a 1.3...at 9000rpm!

Now thats impressive...

(Alfa GTA junior 1300)

Mazda got 231PS from the same displacement and revs. Everyone always forgets the rotaries.....

[StottyZr]

Ali_T said:

Fantuzzi said:

Alfa got 180bhp from a 1.3...at 9000rpm!

Now thats impressive...

(Alfa GTA junior 1300)

Mazda got 231PS from the same displacement and revs. Everyone always forgets the rotaries.....

Its not really the same displacement, its 2.6l.

[Ali_T]

Only for equivalence factoring in motor sport, and for governments to excessively tax them. The swept volume is 1.3. The difference is no need for a wasted exhaust stroke, unlike piston engines, as each rotation allows both a compression/ignition and exhausting of gases. The simple truth still remains, it's a tiny, huge specific output 1.3 litre engine.

[otolith]

StottyZr said:

Ali_T said:

Fantuzzi said:

Alfa got 180bhp from a 1.3...at 9000rpm!

Now thats impressive...

(Alfa GTA junior 1300)

Mazda got 231PS from the same displacement and revs. Everyone always forgets the rotaries.....

Its not really the same displacement, its 2.6l.

Displacement is arbitrary, all that really matters is (a) what size box will it fit in and (b) what does it weigh.

[forzaminardi]

Finally it looks like Honda might be rediscovering their mojo. I can't say I'm a fan of the current Civic's looks but the confidence they have for the Type-R sounds like they're taking it seriously not just as a product itself but as something that will represent the brand.

Now for a S2000 replacement.

[Ali_T]

Honda Europe lost it's mojo a long time ago, as much via silly decisions to not import the Dc5, Accord Euro R and FD2 Civic when there was a massive demand for them. They are quite happy to peddle cheap econoboxes to pensioners these days. All the effort they made to gain a younger following has, seemingly, been thrown in the bin. By the time they are competitive for enthusiasts, I'll be a pensioner anyway!

[Neith]

Very sad to see the K20 go (as an EP3 owner), but I remember reading a while back (TG Magazine I think) that the emissions regulations had killed off the Type-R for the time being. Nice to hear Honda is bringing a new one to the table.

Honestly not sure what to make of it (I really don't like the current gen Civic), but a high-revving 1.6 turbo sounds interesting. I'm kind of surprised they opted for the turbo route though.

Just need a new ITR now

[Fantuzzi]

otolith said:

StottyZr said:

Ali_T said:

Fantuzzi said:

Alfa got 180bhp from a 1.3...at 9000rpm!

Now thats impressive...

(Alfa GTA junior 1300)

Mazda got 231PS from the same displacement and revs. Everyone always forgets the rotaries.....

Its not really the same displacement, its 2.6l.

Displacement is arbitrary, all that really matters is (a) what size box will it fit in and (b) what does it weigh.

What year did mazda get that?

Alfa did it in the late 60s.

[Ali_T]

Fantuzzi said:

What year did mazda get that?

Alfa did it in the late 60s.

Are you talking about standard GTA Junior or the racing version? Because the road cars had 110bhp maximum. If you're talking about racing versions, that's a completely different, and pointless, argument.

[SonicHedgeHog]

I can't remember a title of another thread that got me more excited than this one only to bring me down to earth with a Bunkerbuster bomb kind of thud. My current steed may only have a 1.6 NA motor, but that will be up to 160bhp next year and will give me a level of fun this new CTR will only be able to dream of. It's not how fast you get from A to B it's the fun you have on the way.

What an utter, utter, utter, complete and total disappointment.

[Fantuzzi]

Ali_T said:

Fantuzzi said:

What year did mazda get that?

Alfa did it in the late 60s.

Are you talking about standard GTA Junior or the racing version? Because the road cars had 110bhp maximum. If you're talking about racing versions, that's a completely different, and pointless, argument.

Well if you read through the thread before posting, someone commented on how the 300 odd bhp from a 1.6 (turbo) was rather impressive, someone then informed him how that was the TC version not the road going engine.

Hence why I used the GTA as an example of high Bhp from a small capacity race engine.

Not everything in a forum has to be an argument, I was merely commenting.

Edited by Fantuzzi on Friday 21st September 20:03