RE: Time for Tea? Group B Audi Sport Quattro

RE: Time for Tea? Group B Audi Sport Quattro

Author
Discussion

hope2421

446 posts

212 months

Monday 24th September 2012
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I have been lucky enough to own two quattros, best sounding rally car of all time bar none....legend.

7DWM

24 posts

149 months

Monday 24th September 2012
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God I miss proper rallying!

Group B probably was the pinacle of the sport but go back Group A in 94/95 and you had Celica GT4, Imprezza WRX, Lancer Evo, Sunny GTiR, Integrale, Escort Cossie and you could buy all of these for the road. I know we've only got Subaru and Mitsubishi left making rally cars for the road but if they brought back Group A rules how long would it take for Ford to make a 4wd Focus RS or for someone to develop the Audi S3? Toyota GT86 4x4 Turbo anyone?

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Monday 24th September 2012
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7DWM said:
God I miss proper rallying!

Group B probably was the pinacle of the sport but go back Group A in 94/95 and you had Celica GT4, Imprezza WRX, Lancer Evo, Sunny GTiR, Integrale, Escort Cossie and you could buy all of these for the road. I know we've only got Subaru and Mitsubishi left making rally cars for the road but if they brought back Group A rules how long would it take for Ford to make a 4wd Focus RS or for someone to develop the Audi S3? Toyota GT86 4x4 Turbo anyone?
The Manufacturers don't want to do this - it costs too much for a small market. Which is why the WRCar formula was brought in in 1997. It's a nice thought, but it's not going to happen, sadly.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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ever noticed how classic cars suddenly take off in price when the kids who had them on their wall hit 35?
if ever there was a time to revive gp b its now. if manufacturers started producing modern group b cars, (what was it 200 to homologate?) they would be sold out before anyone could say 'crowd safety'. could be just the thing to revive lancia/peugeot/renault/ford/citroen

Repent

358 posts

172 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Thats one of the best videos Ive seen in a while, what a noise and the driving, could send me off for hours on a Group B youtube journey which wouldnt be the first time.

Sadly though its just like maturing in life, you can go mental and take huge risks for a while but eventually sense overcomes the party, dumbs things down and puts up some boundaries before the worst happens. Sadly it already did for some. As glorious as it was at least we had it and it can be reminisced about, whilst it was probably everything to those that died they lost more than that.

Ftumpch

188 posts

157 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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ArnageWRC said:
7DWM said:
God I miss proper rallying!

Group B probably was the pinacle of the sport but go back Group A in 94/95 and you had Celica GT4, Imprezza WRX, Lancer Evo, Sunny GTiR, Integrale, Escort Cossie and you could buy all of these for the road. I know we've only got Subaru and Mitsubishi left making rally cars for the road but if they brought back Group A rules how long would it take for Ford to make a 4wd Focus RS or for someone to develop the Audi S3? Toyota GT86 4x4 Turbo anyone?
The Manufacturers don't want to do this - it costs too much for a small market. Which is why the WRCar formula was brought in in 1997. It's a nice thought, but it's not going to happen, sadly.
I'd like to see an Arnage rallying! drink

And in fact I sort of wonder whether it mightn't be a bad idea to go back to 2WD. It seems like the capabilities of 4Wd rally cars more or less exceed the ability of the roads they drive on to put said cars into difficulty. A rear driver in particular would probably be much more entertaining, and a better indicator of driver skill.


marshall100

1,124 posts

200 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Seems quite straightroward really, you just need to make the cars a bit more dramatic than they are now. I would imagine that the current collection of WRC cars are faster over a given stretch of road compared to a group b car, but they don't belch, fart, and swing about anything like a group B machine.

I'd take my kids to see something like that again, and it'd not only blow their minds, but mine too.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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marshall100 said:
Seems quite straightroward really, you just need to make the cars a bit more dramatic than they are now. I would imagine that the current collection of WRC cars are faster over a given stretch of road compared to a group b car, but they don't belch, fart, and swing about anything like a group B machine.

I'd take my kids to see something like that again, and it'd not only blow their minds, but mine too.
Take your kids to see a WRC event, you'll be surprised at how on it the drivers are.

sjabrown

1,910 posts

159 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Got to remember the advance in tyre and suspension technology now. Grip is so much higher so there's less need to chuck cars around on the loose.

Byronwww

392 posts

138 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Re rally: they should take some tips from global rallycross and modernise things a bit more - more cars like the Exige rally car would be a good start though (GT86 Rallye?).

K50 DEL

9,227 posts

227 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Ftumpch said:
I'd like to see an Arnage rallying!
well it's not quite an Arnage, but still slightly incongruous.... looks like good fun though!


anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Byronwww said:
Re rally: they should take some tips from global rallycross and modernise things a bit more - more cars like the Exige rally car would be a good start though (GT86 Rallye?).
Don't think that is the case, just needs more publicity. Maybe one or two more rounds as well, WRC Japan and Russia perhaps?

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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PSBuckshot said:
marshall100 said:
Seems quite straightroward really, you just need to make the cars a bit more dramatic than they are now. I would imagine that the current collection of WRC cars are faster over a given stretch of road compared to a group b car, but they don't belch, fart, and swing about anything like a group B machine.

I'd take my kids to see something like that again, and it'd not only blow their minds, but mine too.
Take your kids to see a WRC event, you'll be surprised at how on it the drivers are.
Absolutely!! The current WRC has many problems - but the top WRC & S2000 guys are an awesome sight, particularly if you can get a decent corner. And that is the main reason people still attend.

VEX

5,256 posts

245 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Awesome first picture. Can we have a high res one for my desktop wallpaper?

V.

SJR202

147 posts

253 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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My first Rally events were Trentham, Sutton Park & Chatsworth when I was under 10 and the Group B era was flying, if the Rally GB had only been in the corner of Wales I'd never of had the chance to go but when it was travelling past everyone's door steps any kid with an interest is going to be able to go and watch one year, not to mention the bobble hat brigade. Not to mention the event was all week with highlights every night on BBC and live coverage almost all weekend again on BBC, it had more coverage than even F1 does today!

As for banning Grp B it had to be done in the 80's but safety has changed in motorsport as much as the event itself, drivers were still dying in F1 and other formulas in the 80s and even 90s while you will never be able to mitigate a sideways shunt of a rally car into a solid pine tree the roll cages and crash structures are like never before and with crowd control (you would never see a Portugal style crowd today) being a priority, well back from the stages and sometimes behind protective sections if the cars started having more power and flamboyancy I dont believe the danger would be much more.

My only question is whether in the 80s people were reminiscing on the days when they used to watch a Porsche or Stratos fly past which must have looked even more special than the Grp B stuff! But no one is going to have fond memories of a C4 or Countryman as has been said, I dont want to buy one now let alone in 25 years time!

Thank goodness for YouTube smile

cullenster

60 posts

146 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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Here's an idea. Get rid of four-wheel-drive. Have the Junior WRC drivers compete in front-wheel-drive 1.6 litre turbo machines and have the top drivers compete in rear-wheel-drive 1.6 litre turbo machines, but with more power. Let manufacturers hold on to their current cars, but just engineer out the front driveshafts.
As it is, you could never get a four-wheel-drive Ford Focus/Fiesta, Citroen DS or C4, so making them RWD shouldn't dent their showroom appeal, but will make the rallying more exciting.
And rather than creating x amount of homologation cars, why not tell the manufacturers to base them on cars that have sold 50,000 or more, but they must create 30 customer examples before they can rally them.
It gives teams a chance to sell customer rally cars, which they must keep the cost down on to be able to sell, and also makes the rest of the field competitive too.
And, for the team that does the best, it increases the demand for the customer cars, meaning more sales and more money to offset the development costs.
You will end up with a field of less sophisticated, powerful, rear wheel drive cars which, if driven by a spirited local on familiar roads, could challenge the big works teams.
The next step is to give Sebastien Loeb a desk job in the FIA and get him off the rally stages. He's killing the sport!

Numeric

1,393 posts

150 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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All i know is that it proves in terms of driving evolotion I'm very firmly stuck in the flippers and gills stage...Sigh!!

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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grumpy52 said:
In the forest at night on the RAC the first year the quatro came over the noise ! The speed ! The flames !
The hairs still stand up just thinking about it.
One of my great regrets is never having got out into the forests to witness this spectacle. I can only imagine!

993RSGT3

84 posts

173 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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The mid 80's was a golden era for motorsport. Group B rallying, Group C endurance, turbo era F1 cars. Even touring cars were interesting. periods like this seemed to come along regularly until innovation was regulated out of the sport. I mean, just look at F1 - you know the regs are too tight when 11 of 12 teams come up with the same design solution to a change in the regs (duck billed cars - only the McLaren is different). Top level motorsport needs to allow the designers room to innovate eg why does the new F1 engine spec insist on V6s - surely they should allow any configuration as long as it's a 1.6 turbo?

carmental

71 posts

150 months

Tuesday 25th September 2012
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That photo was my computer background!