RE: Time for Tea? Group B Audi Sport Quattro
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Ditch the manufacturers? It does seem that many facets of Motorsport are just more exciting when the big boys aren't running the show. Touring Cars is well past its heyday and would be better going back to less in your face involvement from the manufacturers.
The rules need to change. More focus on cars closer to the road going version than a shell and bespoke running gear. I think a lot of it is just due to the world market for cars at the moment. Lots of big players are no longer interested in performance cars, not like 20 years ago when every company seemed to have a handful of hot models ready to rally in every class.
November. 7am. Gloom. Headlights. Gravel. Sideways. Quattro.
Grizedale and Mikkola has just gone by.
Heaven.
Who was the best driver in the world in 1984/5? Formula 1 could give you Prost or Lauda. Rallying could give you a top 5! Rohrl, Allen, Toivonan, Blomqvist, Vatinan, Juha, Mikkola, Salonen. More than 5 there? Exactly, pick your top 5 out of that lot!!! Not to mention that possibly, just possibly the best of the lot had recently retired.
Grizedale and Mikkola has just gone by.
Heaven.
Who was the best driver in the world in 1984/5? Formula 1 could give you Prost or Lauda. Rallying could give you a top 5! Rohrl, Allen, Toivonan, Blomqvist, Vatinan, Juha, Mikkola, Salonen. More than 5 there? Exactly, pick your top 5 out of that lot!!! Not to mention that possibly, just possibly the best of the lot had recently retired.
DonkeyApple said:
Group B really was the peak of this amazing sport. It had a resurgence with the early Scoobies but just who would ever be interested in a sodding Mini Countryman?
They really need to find a change. They can't really go back to the Group B concept as you know more people would die than was acceptable.
So, if the modern cars look dull is it the cara that need to change? There is nothing wrong with the drivers. And I can't really see anything wrong with the courses. It's the cars which just don't grab your heart or balls.
Ditch the manufacturers? It does seem that many facets of Motorsport are just more exciting when the big boys aren't running the show. Touring Cars is well past its heyday and would be better going back to less in your face involvement from the manufacturers.
I think people are just bored of multinationals buying victories in order to sell dull cars. Some of these sports need to find a way to still attract enough money to run but without being just a sales tool so obviously.
Spot on.They really need to find a change. They can't really go back to the Group B concept as you know more people would die than was acceptable.
So, if the modern cars look dull is it the cara that need to change? There is nothing wrong with the drivers. And I can't really see anything wrong with the courses. It's the cars which just don't grab your heart or balls.
Ditch the manufacturers? It does seem that many facets of Motorsport are just more exciting when the big boys aren't running the show. Touring Cars is well past its heyday and would be better going back to less in your face involvement from the manufacturers.
I think people are just bored of multinationals buying victories in order to sell dull cars. Some of these sports need to find a way to still attract enough money to run but without being just a sales tool so obviously.
French Tout Terrain rallies have a format where some of the classes must have the silhoutte of a production car (and be able to fit windscreen and doors of the car on which it is based), besides that and the class engine regulations it is a free-for all for very talented builder / drivers. Have a look for a Vincent Foucart's 205 on Youtube...or Patrick Poincelet's Clio
ETA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oVHkdVWlRM
Edited by 100SRV on Monday 24th September 20:57
Great noise from the Quattro
However, for a simple, but persuasive illustration of why today's WRC is losing popularity, take a look at Andy Burton's Peugeot Cosworth. Built in a shed on a (relatively) tiny budget, but with a hundred times the charisma of any modern rally car
For quite possibly one of the best-sounding sequences of a rally car that I've ever heard, fast-forward to around 11m10s and watch the next minute - now that's proper rallying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh8w1zPte0w
PS - rallying used to be about cars you could hear for at least 30 seconds before it appeared and a minute after it had passed - sadly missing nowadays
However, for a simple, but persuasive illustration of why today's WRC is losing popularity, take a look at Andy Burton's Peugeot Cosworth. Built in a shed on a (relatively) tiny budget, but with a hundred times the charisma of any modern rally car
For quite possibly one of the best-sounding sequences of a rally car that I've ever heard, fast-forward to around 11m10s and watch the next minute - now that's proper rallying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh8w1zPte0w
PS - rallying used to be about cars you could hear for at least 30 seconds before it appeared and a minute after it had passed - sadly missing nowadays
Edited by Nigel_O on Monday 24th September 20:45
Lax Power said:
Group B was great but you don't have to go that far back to find the 'good old days'.
Take 1994 for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_World_Rally_Cham...
Look at that list of names! They also had the Safari rally.
One man is solely responsible for the ruination of the sport: Prodrive mogul David Richards.
His Eccleston-esq dream to bring rallying to the masses by commercialising it and televising it everywhere led to sponsors setting the terms and not manufacturers. Its not about manufacturers proving their cars on the rally scene so that they can sell rally specials, its about providing moving billboards. That's why they don't night stages any more and they are washed at each service...because you cant see the logos! Don't even get me started on paying to get into the forest!
The spectator who stands in a frozen Welsh forest at 3am waiting for the crisp sound of a BDG Escort on full song to pierce the air has been pushed out. Alienate him and the sport dies. Easy.
A pretty accurate summing up. All the sport needed were a few tweaks - instead they ruined it.Take 1994 for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_World_Rally_Cham...
Look at that list of names! They also had the Safari rally.
One man is solely responsible for the ruination of the sport: Prodrive mogul David Richards.
His Eccleston-esq dream to bring rallying to the masses by commercialising it and televising it everywhere led to sponsors setting the terms and not manufacturers. Its not about manufacturers proving their cars on the rally scene so that they can sell rally specials, its about providing moving billboards. That's why they don't night stages any more and they are washed at each service...because you cant see the logos! Don't even get me started on paying to get into the forest!
The spectator who stands in a frozen Welsh forest at 3am waiting for the crisp sound of a BDG Escort on full song to pierce the air has been pushed out. Alienate him and the sport dies. Easy.
Great cars, drivers, but when a sport is a 'killing field' it can't go on.
Lax Power said:
One man is solely responsible for the ruination of the sport: Prodrive mogul David Richards.
His Eccleston-esq dream to bring rallying to the masses by commercialising it and televising it everywhere led to sponsors setting the terms and not manufacturers. Its not about manufacturers proving their cars on the rally scene so that they can sell rally specials, its about providing moving billboards. That's why they don't night stages any more and they are washed at each service...because you cant see the logos! Don't even get me started on paying to get into the forest!
The spectator who stands in a frozen Welsh forest at 3am waiting for the crisp sound of a BDG Escort on full song to pierce the air has been pushed out. Alienate him and the sport dies. Easy.
Agree. And with article para 1. I can remember Blomqvist's 96's discs glowing red in Grizedale, I can HEAR the stacatto bark of the BDG echoing off the trees, and yes, I too remember the first time I saw quattro at speed in the forest. I also travelled MILES to marshall on the RAC in the dead of night, year after year.His Eccleston-esq dream to bring rallying to the masses by commercialising it and televising it everywhere led to sponsors setting the terms and not manufacturers. Its not about manufacturers proving their cars on the rally scene so that they can sell rally specials, its about providing moving billboards. That's why they don't night stages any more and they are washed at each service...because you cant see the logos! Don't even get me started on paying to get into the forest!
The spectator who stands in a frozen Welsh forest at 3am waiting for the crisp sound of a BDG Escort on full song to pierce the air has been pushed out. Alienate him and the sport dies. Easy.
But I didn't even know when the Rally "GB" was on this year. Says it all.
Not suggesting for a moment a return to Gp B, but there must be SOMETHING - sack Loeb off for a start.
Edited by twobanks on Monday 24th September 22:05
kiwifraser said:
Fantastic noise, Legendary car.
And... roads like those shown at the 2.00 min mark are one of the things I miss most about living in New Zealand.
Looks a bit like Old Mountain Road just west of Hamilton. Very fast first couple of miles. Where I first saw the staggering pace of the Quattro. Unforgettable.And... roads like those shown at the 2.00 min mark are one of the things I miss most about living in New Zealand.
For full effect, put on your William Woollard rally jacket and play this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsYrhNMZa6U
Great days, but I can't see them coming back. I remember being in the overnight rest halt when the cars came in, they were more like growling snarling wild animals than cars. The rules changes were supposed to make the cars closer to cars you see on the road. Heck, you can't even buy a Ford Focus with 4WD.
Great days, but I can't see them coming back. I remember being in the overnight rest halt when the cars came in, they were more like growling snarling wild animals than cars. The rules changes were supposed to make the cars closer to cars you see on the road. Heck, you can't even buy a Ford Focus with 4WD.
twobanks said:
But I didn't even know when the Rally "GB" was on this year. Says it all.
Not suggesting for a moment a return to Gp B, but there must be SOMETHING - sack Loeb off for a start.
i was just thinking the same thing. i was 11 when group b was banned but i still remember vatanen, rohrl, mouton, alan, blomquvist, toivonen&cresto, salonen and mikkola... the only driver i know for sure today is loeb!Not suggesting for a moment a return to Gp B, but there must be SOMETHING - sack Loeb off for a start.
don't see why they can't bring back gp b. the cars are orders of magnitude safer and there is actually spectator stage management today...
Only ever been to a rally once... So just as well it was 1985. Was 12 years old but the fact that I remember the stage name (Trentham) shows the lasting impact it has had. Other things I remember that day...
My father telling me they would seem to be going much faster than I might have expected. He wasn't wrong
That the single rope barrier we were behind edged ever closer to the action until we were virtually on the track
Being able to get right up to a 6R4 in a service bay and none of the crew seeming to mind
It was bloody freezing!
My father telling me they would seem to be going much faster than I might have expected. He wasn't wrong
That the single rope barrier we were behind edged ever closer to the action until we were virtually on the track
Being able to get right up to a 6R4 in a service bay and none of the crew seeming to mind
It was bloody freezing!
For me rallying died when Subaru's works team departed. Nothing can quite match the drama of a unrestricted fire breathing blown 5 Quattro on full boost. Rallying at its best seemed to bring out the best in manufacturers, look at all the rallying derived homologation specials over the years like th Sport Quattro, 205 T16, Rs200 etc or even fierce competition of manufacturers going at it for one-upmanship with the likes of Evos and Imprezas. Long gone are those days but its not all doom and gloom, we do have the Citroen C4 "LOEB Edition", limited to 400 units apparently!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff