RE: Spotted: Honda NSX
Discussion
I was at a little classic car show in SW France at the weekend and, to my surprise, a guy turned up in an absolutely mint 1991 NSX.
It reminded me of the test drive I did that year and how much I liked it - not to mention the sight of a stroppy snapper trying to get underneath to take pix of all that ally.
A few years ago I was keen on buying one but, after test driving a couple again, I decided that the actual driving experience wasn't hugely better than my old daily driver Prelude Vti, so I dropped the idea.
Still a lovely piece of engineering and workmanship though.
It reminded me of the test drive I did that year and how much I liked it - not to mention the sight of a stroppy snapper trying to get underneath to take pix of all that ally.
A few years ago I was keen on buying one but, after test driving a couple again, I decided that the actual driving experience wasn't hugely better than my old daily driver Prelude Vti, so I dropped the idea.
Still a lovely piece of engineering and workmanship though.
Kateg28 said:
Do you speak to him? I will have to mention you to him. Thank you for your compliments, he does look after it but also likes to use it properly. I did do a write up of our trip to the Alps:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Just read your thread on your trip, fantastic shame about the water tank but a great experience i am sure you both loved it, are you going back next year?http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
garypotter said:
Just read your thread on your trip, fantastic shame about the water tank but a great experience i am sure you both loved it, are you going back next year?
We are indeed. I spoke to him last night (to tell him about this thread) and he said we will have to get some dates in the diary.The NSX is a lovely car. Pure, light, agile, lovely engine (yes nearly 300bhp is enough), great noise and all wrapped up in Honda's famed reliability. It really is the everyday useable supercar.
However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
Limpet said:
The reported usability somehow turned me off it though. I kind of want a recalcitrant gearbox, heavy controls, and other quirks in a supercar. In a way, the kind of things that would drive you nuts in your daily runabout somehow add to the driving appeal of a car like this.
I haven't driven one, and can only comment based on the contemporary road tests, but cars like this are surely as much about the sense of occasion and how they make you feel, as how good they are to drive. Whether it's prejudice on my part, I'm not sure, but I just couldn't see myself turning down a Ferrari for one of these, at least if it weren't to be a car I had to rely on for daily use.
Many journalists at the time said it was a supercar that your granny could drive. These descriptions did it no favours in my view.
In terms of 'sense of occasion' - believe me, it doesn't disappoint. OK, bright colours may help, and I haven't got a Ferrari to benchmark it against, sadly. But I've had mine for 3 years now (& 15k miles), and genuinely every drive still makes me smile, and I still turn around to do a metaphoric "pinch myself" as I park it up somewhere. The sight of the front wings framing the bottom-corners of the windscreen really does say 'supercar', and then there's the balance, the responsiveness, the sound ( I haven't driven one, and can only comment based on the contemporary road tests, but cars like this are surely as much about the sense of occasion and how they make you feel, as how good they are to drive. Whether it's prejudice on my part, I'm not sure, but I just couldn't see myself turning down a Ferrari for one of these, at least if it weren't to be a car I had to rely on for daily use.
Many journalists at the time said it was a supercar that your granny could drive. These descriptions did it no favours in my view.
) - just because it CAN be driven by anyone (ergonomics are spot-on*, controls are sensibly-weighted), doesn't make it a Honda Civic!It's much the same as those people who criticise the Boxster for being 'too polished'...there's a difference between a mfr engineering any involvement out of a car (I'm looking at you, VAG!) and a mfr engineering out the flaws, the niggles, the engineering short-cuts.
BTW - personally disagree with your first paragraph. Test-drove a 'vette C5 before getting the NSX and the stupidly-heavy clutch and awkward gearbox really put me off the car. Each to their own, I guess...same as some people WANT a car that needs regular tinkering (TVR, Alfa, 60s/70s British Classics...) because to them that makes them feel more 'ownership' of the car. I'm not a skilled-enough spannerer for that to be any fun at all.
* Rear visibility is better than most modern hatchbacks, all-round vis is excellent, and it's easy to place on the road because the (visible) tops of those front arches are directly on the axle-line.
Guvernator said:
The NSX is a lovely car. Pure, light, agile, lovely engine (yes nearly 300bhp is enough), great noise and all wrapped up in Honda's famed reliability. It really is the everyday useable supercar.
However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
I suppose we're all entitled to our own opinions. However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
Guvernator said:
The NSX is a lovely car. Pure, light, agile, lovely engine (yes nearly 300bhp is enough), great noise and all wrapped up in Honda's famed reliability. It really is the everyday useable supercar.
However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
Can you point me to the literally thousands that I can import to the UK for a reasonable cost? I would like a late model couple please.However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
Why are you only mentioning the purchase cost when making comparisons? What about running costs?
Derek Chevalier said:
Can you point me to the literally thousands that I can import to the UK for a reasonable cost? I would like a late model couple please.
Why are you only mentioning the purchase cost when making comparisons? What about running costs?
Obviously the cost of importing is a factor but that is more to do with our thieving government rather than the worth of the actual car. A late coupe's market value is around £30k in those two countries which is more in line with what I'd expect an 8-10 year old junior supercar with 300bhp to be worth if you ignore all the "whoo" surrounding the "NSX legend". Why are you only mentioning the purchase cost when making comparisons? What about running costs?
£50k will buy you a brand new Lotus Exige V6, same mid engine layout, same junior supercar looks, better handling, more power, quicker and it's brand new. This is what I'd spend my £50k on if I wanted a mid engine sportscar.
Guvernator said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Can you point me to the literally thousands that I can import to the UK for a reasonable cost? I would like a late model couple please.
Why are you only mentioning the purchase cost when making comparisons? What about running costs?
Obviously the cost of importing is a factor but that is more to do with our thieving government rather than the worth of the actual car. A late coupe's market value is around £30k in those two countries which is more in line with what I'd expect an 8-10 year old junior supercar with 300bhp to be worth if you ignore all the "whoo" surrounding the "NSX legend". Why are you only mentioning the purchase cost when making comparisons? What about running costs?
£50k will buy you a brand new Lotus Exige V6, same mid engine layout, same junior supercar looks, better handling, more power, quicker and it's brand new. This is what I'd spend my £50k on if I wanted a mid engine sportscar.
I think it is fair to say the Exige and NSX target different audiences. However, what do you think the Exige would be worth in 3 years time?
Literally thousands?
19005 were ever made (that I can establish, my figures are off the internet and may not be entirely accurate) so not sure there are 'literally thousands' we could import even if you were happy to have a left hooker (50% are US models).
I also agree with the previous OP, the Exige is truly a fabulous car but a different market in my opionion. I think the NSX is more classy with a better sense of occasion. My dad drove 8 hour shifts on our Alpine trip, only stopping for toilet breaks, with no physical problems. The car is supremely comfortable and easy to drive and then you can turn the power on. I am not convinced the exige would be comfortable for that length of time.
And yes, the NSX is unlikely to depreciate anymore but the exige will do (do not get me wrong, I really like the exige)
19005 were ever made (that I can establish, my figures are off the internet and may not be entirely accurate) so not sure there are 'literally thousands' we could import even if you were happy to have a left hooker (50% are US models).
I also agree with the previous OP, the Exige is truly a fabulous car but a different market in my opionion. I think the NSX is more classy with a better sense of occasion. My dad drove 8 hour shifts on our Alpine trip, only stopping for toilet breaks, with no physical problems. The car is supremely comfortable and easy to drive and then you can turn the power on. I am not convinced the exige would be comfortable for that length of time.
And yes, the NSX is unlikely to depreciate anymore but the exige will do (do not get me wrong, I really like the exige)
Guvernator said:
Obviously the cost of importing is a factor but that is more to do with our thieving government rather than the worth of the actual car. A late coupe's market value is around £30k in those two countries which is more in line with what I'd expect an 8-10 year old junior supercar with 300bhp to be worth if you ignore all the "whoo" surrounding the "NSX legend".
£50k will buy you a brand new Lotus Exige V6, same mid engine layout, same junior supercar looks, better handling, more power, quicker and it's brand new. This is what I'd spend my £50k on if I wanted a mid engine sportscar.
You CANNOT buy a late model coupe in Japan for £30k. The NSX is allot more expensive there than here. A 2005 NSX with around 20k, will cost anywhere between £70,000 and £100,000+ that's the cost of the car in Japan, NOT the cost of it shipped out and imported here, which would be EVEN MORE expensive. £50k will buy you a brand new Lotus Exige V6, same mid engine layout, same junior supercar looks, better handling, more power, quicker and it's brand new. This is what I'd spend my £50k on if I wanted a mid engine sportscar.
Good Early NSXs are £20k to £60+ in Japan,
Guvernator said:
The NSX is a lovely car. Pure, light, agile, lovely engine (yes nearly 300bhp is enough), great noise and all wrapped up in Honda's famed reliability. It really is the everyday useable supercar.
However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
This is pretty much exactly what you said last time we had this debate. However, you then conceded that; However the drastic appreciation in recent years has puzzled me greatly. People who say rarity is a factor are wrong, there are literally thousands of the things in Japan and the US (Acura NSX) and indeed the price in the US is more reflective of what I think they are worth now as a CAR rather than as some over-hyped, rose tinted, Senna fueled idol. Countless retrospective magazine articles who all of a sudden seem to have "realised" how good they are despite not liking when they came out originally are mostly to blame.
At £25k they are a very decent way into supercar ownership, at £50k people are having a laugh. They aren't THAT good and for that money, there are much better cars available.
"On a personal note, I am probably just annoyed that NSX prices are going up so much and I missed the chance to buy one when they were reasonably priced at £25k"
As for there being 'literally thousand.' That's a very misleading statement. For starters, the lion share of the eighteen or so thousand cars made were left hand drive and went to North America. The rest were sold in small numbers over various LHD/RHD markets. The UK accounted for around 450 cars over the whole fifteen years of production. Most of these cars were imported in the first five years. There are approximately 350 left.
The reason they are appreciating is because;
1. The only accessible RHD market is Japan; The Japanese value these cars, so are unwilling to give them away. The Yen is also incredibly strong which makes export economically unviable. Australia is also an option, but again considerably more than the UK.
2. Many late cars are going to HK because the UK market is cheaper than Japan.
3. They have fantastic build quality and don't suffer the reliability issues and associated costs that some other brands do.
4. Not everyone wants a Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche etc........
5. They don't try to kill you but are still challenging to drive.
6. Some people don't like pissing their money away on depreciating 'assets'.
7. Late cars are increasing the most because they are the preference of the international markets and the offer a bridge between the classic pop-up look and current automotive design.
Finally on this post. I never understand why people say; "you could buy this for the same money." Or, "there are much better cars available."
If I want to buy a lotus for £50K I'd be someone else. When I go into a pet shop to buy a cat. I buy a cat. If the petshop owner tries to sell me a parrot. I still buy a cat. I don't want a bloody parrot.
Guvernator said:
Obviously the cost of importing is a factor but that is more to do with our thieving government rather than the worth of the actual car. A late coupe's market value is around £30k in those two countries which is more in line with what I'd expect an 8-10 year old junior supercar with 300bhp to be worth if you ignore all the "whoo" surrounding the "NSX legend".
£50k will buy you a brand new Lotus Exige V6, same mid engine layout, same junior supercar looks, better handling, more power, quicker and it's brand new. This is what I'd spend my £50k on if I wanted a mid engine sportscar.
I think the previous poster sums this one up pretty well. You will not get a good late car for £30K + shipping + taxes. £50k will buy you a brand new Lotus Exige V6, same mid engine layout, same junior supercar looks, better handling, more power, quicker and it's brand new. This is what I'd spend my £50k on if I wanted a mid engine sportscar.
Finally, if you have a problem with the NSX appreciating in value. Do you have the same issues with all the other 'current appreciators?'
The E30 M3, the 964 RS, the various RS Fords, the TVR Sagarias (up £15K in just over a year and a half). Many of these cars make the NSX's recent increases look conservative.
Cheers.
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