RE: Spotted: Honda NSX
Discussion
Justayellowbadge said:
When did the revisionist 348 b
ks begin?
Circa 1990 IIRC when the NSX comparisons showed the 348 up for what it was. There is much about the NSX which isn't matched by baby donkey up to 360-dom. After that comparisons become less valid or relevant. There is a fair amount about the 360 that the NSX trumps, also. I'm fairly well positioned to make that comparison.ks begin?Having said that, if the NSX had looked like a 355, I would probably (possibly) still have mine now.
carinaman said:
There is a well known PH'er who I believe does have two.When people talk about the interior, people forget that this car was a product of the late 80s. In that context, the interior is well ahead of its time.
- No tacky digital gauges or gimmicky "sci-fi" displays to show daft information like air conditioning flow etc
- Clear, driver-focussed dials and controls
- Buttons well laid out, not scattered across the dash / console / ceiling like most supercars of its time
- Switches, buttons etc look like they were designed to be there, not bolted in from a parts bin.
- Pedals not ridiculously offset
- Room to move about in
- Hardwearing & impeccably screwed together
For comparison, here is the equivalent top of the line Corvette from 1991:
and the 911:
And here's a contemporary Ferrari :lol:
Personally, I really like the NSX interior because it is a bit like an Accord's. Honda didn't just look at Ferrari and copy what they were doing, they made the best Honda interior they could. It takes the contemporary Honda quality and makes it all about the driver, with readability and ergonomics a priority.
- No tacky digital gauges or gimmicky "sci-fi" displays to show daft information like air conditioning flow etc
- Clear, driver-focussed dials and controls
- Buttons well laid out, not scattered across the dash / console / ceiling like most supercars of its time
- Switches, buttons etc look like they were designed to be there, not bolted in from a parts bin.
- Pedals not ridiculously offset
- Room to move about in
- Hardwearing & impeccably screwed together
For comparison, here is the equivalent top of the line Corvette from 1991:
and the 911:
And here's a contemporary Ferrari :lol:
Personally, I really like the NSX interior because it is a bit like an Accord's. Honda didn't just look at Ferrari and copy what they were doing, they made the best Honda interior they could. It takes the contemporary Honda quality and makes it all about the driver, with readability and ergonomics a priority.
Edited by Wadeski on Thursday 27th September 01:53
Edited by Wadeski on Thursday 27th September 01:54
This is an excellent thread discussing one of the great sports cars of our time. I almost purchased a used one, silver, pre-facelift with 20K miles on it for $38K in the mid-90's. Decided to ride motorcycles for some time longer and turned it down. Big mistake. I subsequently got back in to sports cars and have yet to own one with the engine in the front and likely never will. And still hope to have an NSX some day. And to my eyes, ears and visceratta, the NSX is head and shoulders above it's contemporary Ferrari. It's design and shape that was such a breakthrough at it's introduction is wearing quite well and in many angles, still looks fresh and new.
Make mine a pre-facelift, pre-targa, White (rare) or silver (also rare). The shriek of the titanium connecting rods in that V6 is just glorious. The light weight, alloy chassis has it feeling light and lithe. Taken alone, the sub-300HP seems on the low side buy I don't buy sports car for power but for balance, steering feel, braking and overall handling. Then I look at the power. The NSX had big check marks in every category.
V
Make mine a pre-facelift, pre-targa, White (rare) or silver (also rare). The shriek of the titanium connecting rods in that V6 is just glorious. The light weight, alloy chassis has it feeling light and lithe. Taken alone, the sub-300HP seems on the low side buy I don't buy sports car for power but for balance, steering feel, braking and overall handling. Then I look at the power. The NSX had big check marks in every category.
V
Justayellowbadge said:
That is more than double the number of 348s produced.
With the exception of nails, and the handful of type R versions, I can't see NSX values being stronger.
But the 355 came after the 348, then 360, then 430, then 458 - I don't think the 348 can be viewed in isolation. In contrast, there hasn't been a successor the NSX, and looks like there may never be.With the exception of nails, and the handful of type R versions, I can't see NSX values being stronger.
Wadeski said:
Various interiors discussed.
The Corvette was a fraction of the price of any of the others but The Honda's interior does not in any way reflect it's price point. In that respect, it has a similarity with the Corvette as both Honda and GM determined that there were better things to spend the money on.I directed my dad to this thread and this is what he emailed me:
Kate's Dad said:
The 348 versus NSX seems to be from a lot of people who have a passing knowledge of the subject.
I actually have the original Autocar road tests of both vehicles.
As you know all (including yours [my mk1 MR2 SC]) mid engined cars are more twitchy on braking and on the limit. The 348 was unacceptably difficult and very difficult to approach any sort of limit.
The NSX has 4 channel ABS as well as traction control to correct these tendencies. NO contemporary testers criticised the NSX although two years ago Colin Goodwin did say that right on the limit it needs a good driver.I should hope it does as you would be going bloody quickly.
The Esprit, NSX and indeed several other Japanese cars showed the 348 in a very poor light and really simply traded on its name. All this is why the 355 was hurried into production. Unusually the 348 lasted less than 5 years because of its issues. Introduced in 1989 with 1990 production and superseded in 1994. It was also why the 355 has many differences in its suspension layout. It also had more power to match the NSX performance. Forget 0 – 60 where the 348 is still only fractionally quicker as these are gearing issues. Both cars weigh the same and make about the same power (Ferrari tend to use pony power instead of horse power). Ferrari made 2895 and Honda 18,316 (all NSX types).Curiously only 400 came to the UK and maybe 250 Ferraris (dad is not sure of these numbers so this is a guess). The volumes made give a clear indication of the reliability. You never see high mileage Ferraris but NSXs with 150k are common in the US.
It also indicates parts availability and pricing. Servicing the 348 is seriously more money.
The pricing of NSX in the UK is really interesting. Actually prices are fairly low. In the US NSX prices are high although the US had over 10000 cars imported. Unusually for the US only about 60% were autos.Prices in Japan are affected by the 3 year testing system and of course the exchange rate.It is also true that contemporary Ferraris have uninspiring interior. Both the 348 and 456 are poor. The NSX interior may be typically Japanese but it is much better quality than the Ferrari. The NSX still rates highly for its ride quality and as you know its comfort.I have driven both cars and owners of 348 today – like most owners of classic cars – drive gently, unless they do track days. The earlier 328 is much better to drive and does not try to send you off the road.
The NSX seems to attract people who want to actually drive them
These are my dad's words, not mine, I am not knowledgeable enough to confirm this. Please note he has also owned a Ferrari which he loved but the unreliability along with the crippling repair bills eventually put him off and he sold it, a 1971 365 GT2+2 - utterly beautiful but I never got to drive it I actually have the original Autocar road tests of both vehicles.
As you know all (including yours [my mk1 MR2 SC]) mid engined cars are more twitchy on braking and on the limit. The 348 was unacceptably difficult and very difficult to approach any sort of limit.
The NSX has 4 channel ABS as well as traction control to correct these tendencies. NO contemporary testers criticised the NSX although two years ago Colin Goodwin did say that right on the limit it needs a good driver.I should hope it does as you would be going bloody quickly.
The Esprit, NSX and indeed several other Japanese cars showed the 348 in a very poor light and really simply traded on its name. All this is why the 355 was hurried into production. Unusually the 348 lasted less than 5 years because of its issues. Introduced in 1989 with 1990 production and superseded in 1994. It was also why the 355 has many differences in its suspension layout. It also had more power to match the NSX performance. Forget 0 – 60 where the 348 is still only fractionally quicker as these are gearing issues. Both cars weigh the same and make about the same power (Ferrari tend to use pony power instead of horse power). Ferrari made 2895 and Honda 18,316 (all NSX types).Curiously only 400 came to the UK and maybe 250 Ferraris (dad is not sure of these numbers so this is a guess). The volumes made give a clear indication of the reliability. You never see high mileage Ferraris but NSXs with 150k are common in the US.
It also indicates parts availability and pricing. Servicing the 348 is seriously more money.
The pricing of NSX in the UK is really interesting. Actually prices are fairly low. In the US NSX prices are high although the US had over 10000 cars imported. Unusually for the US only about 60% were autos.Prices in Japan are affected by the 3 year testing system and of course the exchange rate.It is also true that contemporary Ferraris have uninspiring interior. Both the 348 and 456 are poor. The NSX interior may be typically Japanese but it is much better quality than the Ferrari. The NSX still rates highly for its ride quality and as you know its comfort.I have driven both cars and owners of 348 today – like most owners of classic cars – drive gently, unless they do track days. The earlier 328 is much better to drive and does not try to send you off the road.
The NSX seems to attract people who want to actually drive them
Mouser73 said:
Guvernator said:
The NSX is a lovely car. Pure, light, agile, lovely engine (yes nearly 300bhp is enough), great noise .................
The reason they are appreciating is because;
1. The only accessible RHD market is Japan; The Japanese value these cars, so are unwilling to give them away. The Yen is also incredibly strong which makes export economically unviable. Australia is also an option, but again considerably more than the UK.
2. Many late cars are going to HK because the UK market is cheaper than Japan.
3. They have fantastic build quality and don't suffer the reliability issues and associated costs that some other brands do.
4. Not everyone wants a Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche etc........
5. They don't try to kill you but are still challenging to drive.
6. Some people don't like pissing their money away on depreciating 'assets'.
7. Late cars are increasing the most because they are the preference of the international markets and the offer a bridge between the classic pop-up look and current automotive design.................
Finally on this post. I never understand why people say; "you could buy this for the same money." Or, "there are much better cars available."
If I want to buy a lotus for £50K I'd be someone else. When I go into a pet shop to buy a cat. I buy a cat. If the petshop owner tries to sell me a parrot. I still buy a cat. I don't want a bloody parrot.
Cheers.
Pretty much Spot on IMO. The reason they are appreciating is because;
1. The only accessible RHD market is Japan; The Japanese value these cars, so are unwilling to give them away. The Yen is also incredibly strong which makes export economically unviable. Australia is also an option, but again considerably more than the UK.
2. Many late cars are going to HK because the UK market is cheaper than Japan.
3. They have fantastic build quality and don't suffer the reliability issues and associated costs that some other brands do.
4. Not everyone wants a Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche etc........
5. They don't try to kill you but are still challenging to drive.
6. Some people don't like pissing their money away on depreciating 'assets'.
7. Late cars are increasing the most because they are the preference of the international markets and the offer a bridge between the classic pop-up look and current automotive design.................
Finally on this post. I never understand why people say; "you could buy this for the same money." Or, "there are much better cars available."
If I want to buy a lotus for £50K I'd be someone else. When I go into a pet shop to buy a cat. I buy a cat. If the petshop owner tries to sell me a parrot. I still buy a cat. I don't want a bloody parrot.
Cheers.
Kateg28 said:
These are my dad's words, not mine, I am not knowledgeable enough to confirm this. (
Kate, your dad makes some good points but there are several flaws in the thought process there, which potentially misrepresent some of the points he was trying to make. ABS and TCS aren't there to correct handling or behavioural traits. A properly resolved chassis takes care of that. I don't recall much, if any, intervention from those systems in 3 years of ownership. If those systems hadn't been on the car it wouldn't have made a difference. Mouser73 said:
I think the previous poster sums this one up pretty well. You will not get a good late car for £30K + shipping + taxes.
Finally, if you have a problem with the NSX appreciating in value. Do you have the same issues with all the other 'current appreciators?'
The E30 M3, the 964 RS, the various RS Fords, the TVR Sagarias (up £15K in just over a year and a half). Many of these cars make the NSX's recent increases look conservative.
Cheers.
Your post makes it sound like you think I have a downer on the NSX, I don't, I think they are fantastic cars, just not worth the £50k and rising that are being asked for them.Finally, if you have a problem with the NSX appreciating in value. Do you have the same issues with all the other 'current appreciators?'
The E30 M3, the 964 RS, the various RS Fords, the TVR Sagarias (up £15K in just over a year and a half). Many of these cars make the NSX's recent increases look conservative.
Cheers.
I am not interested in history, heritage, rarity, Senna's input (apart from it making it a better car), whether it's better\worse than a Ferrari\Porsche, the world market etc. All I am interested in as a car, you know that marvelous invention that enables you to get in and actually DRIVE it is what it offers ME as a driving experience.
The NSX is NOT a £50k driving experience, especially when you compare that to what else can be bought for that amount. All the other factors that you've mention have absolutely no bearing on what an NSX is like to drive but more as an ornament\commodity which I have zero interest in and yes I do think all those other cars you've mentioned are also overpriced for what they offer as a driving experience, all IMO of course
Derek Chevalier said:
Again, why do you focus on the purchase cost?
Not sure I understand the point you are getting at. I'm merely stating that IMO an NSX is not "worth" £50k just like an E30 M3 Evo Sport is not "worth" £50k+ apart from the fact that nostalgia\rose tinted specs\collectors\magazine articles pushes the price up on these cars to ridiculous levels. Not sure what running costs has to do with it.Guvernator said:
Not sure I understand the point you are getting at. I'm merely stating that IMO an NSX is not "worth" £50k just like an E30 M3 Evo Sport is not "worth" £50k+ apart from the fact that nostalgia\rose tinted specs\collectors\magazine articles pushes the price up on these cars to ridiculous levels. Not sure what running costs has to do with it.
everyones entitled to an opinion i guess, I prefer drving a Honda Integra to an M3..I prefer driving my NSX to driving most other cars. To me its a not a 50k driving experience but its an experience I would definately miss if I didnt have one therefore making money not come into it, yes theres lot of cars for 50k etc but most NSX owners love the NSX for a lot more benefits and perks than the drive itself.Guvernator said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Again, why do you focus on the purchase cost?
Not sure I understand the point you are getting at. I'm merely stating that IMO an NSX is not "worth" £50k just like an E30 M3 Evo Sport is not "worth" £50k+ apart from the fact that nostalgia\rose tinted specs\collectors\magazine articles pushes the price up on these cars to ridiculous levels. Not sure what running costs has to do with it.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff