RE: Spotted: Honda NSX
Discussion
Derek Chevalier said:
I'm not disputing that the NSX may be in bubble territory. However, if you were to buy an NSX tomorrow for £40-50k, get a warranty from Honda for <£1k and sell after 3 years, I think there would be a good chance you would get the majority of your outlay back, and running costs shouldn't be excessive. If you were to do the same with an Exige, I believe you would get a fair depreciation hit, as you would with most new cars. Therefore, I would be comparing cars that cost roughtly the same amout to own/run over a given period, rather than the purchase price.
I'm glad you agree that the NSX does seem to have got trapped in a self perpetuating bubble. I also agree that outright ownership costs should be relatively low if prices stay the same or continue to rise, unless of course the bubble bursts. I'd still balk at spending £50k on one for the simple reason that I just find it forever puzzling that a car is given more worth based on seemingly very ambiguous qualities. It's not an antique vase or a painting (even paintings which are "worth" millions puzzle me). It's a car, a device whose sole purpose is to give driving pleasure and therefore it should be judged on how good it is at doing that compared to other cars. Any other measure of it's "worth" is meaningless to me.
Guvernator,
Compare purchase price of an NSX against other reasonably modern cars and you're probably right, but there is the law of diminishing returns to consider. But equally is an R8 or 911 twice as good? It's a very 1 dimensional question and misses a very big point.
Compare say 3 year ownership costs and the NSX suddenly becomes very cheap - zero depreciation and stupidly sensible running costs (clutch excepted) - cheaper than a Boxster or E46 M3, far cheaper than any 911 or TVR.
Compare against other classic car chattels and the NSX was underpriced for years - 50k is now 355 territory and possibly a little strong but no sillier than E30s and original Elans. And far more sensible than E Types, Astons and classic F cars, some of which have become so 'valuable' they're probably hardly driven, which is a massive shame. The classic car market bears no relation to driving fun, but then neither does the modern supercar market where badge, image and headline statistics all vie for importance! I understand both hut don't really see much logic in either...so I sympathise with you to a degree.
Put all of those aspects together and it's probably about right - late cars may be a little high, early cars a little low but overall I think we've had the rise and it'll now stabilise.
PS - thanks Kate. She's a leggy old girl but a pretty one!
Compare purchase price of an NSX against other reasonably modern cars and you're probably right, but there is the law of diminishing returns to consider. But equally is an R8 or 911 twice as good? It's a very 1 dimensional question and misses a very big point.
Compare say 3 year ownership costs and the NSX suddenly becomes very cheap - zero depreciation and stupidly sensible running costs (clutch excepted) - cheaper than a Boxster or E46 M3, far cheaper than any 911 or TVR.
Compare against other classic car chattels and the NSX was underpriced for years - 50k is now 355 territory and possibly a little strong but no sillier than E30s and original Elans. And far more sensible than E Types, Astons and classic F cars, some of which have become so 'valuable' they're probably hardly driven, which is a massive shame. The classic car market bears no relation to driving fun, but then neither does the modern supercar market where badge, image and headline statistics all vie for importance! I understand both hut don't really see much logic in either...so I sympathise with you to a degree.
Put all of those aspects together and it's probably about right - late cars may be a little high, early cars a little low but overall I think we've had the rise and it'll now stabilise.
PS - thanks Kate. She's a leggy old girl but a pretty one!
Where did I read about the Gran Turismo effect where kids that grew up playing that game are now working and now want the cars they 'drove' in Gran Turismo?
I do remember there being a front page piece here in 2007/2008 about bargian supercars when the credit crunch bit. Didn't the NSX get mentioned then? Perhaps some of the increase is due to them going low due to econominc uncertainty in 2007?
I do remember there being a front page piece here in 2007/2008 about bargian supercars when the credit crunch bit. Didn't the NSX get mentioned then? Perhaps some of the increase is due to them going low due to econominc uncertainty in 2007?
Certainly some fair points Havoc
There is a massive disparity between prices early cars are probably too cheap and late cars seem to have gone up massively and disproportionately, strange when you consider that the car didn't actually change very much over it's lifespan and the pop-up lights car is arguably prettier and the more original design which makes me think something else is pushing up the price of late cars. Chancers or dealers looking to make a quick profit due to the massive hype which now seems to surround this car all of a sudden maybe?
I just think the natural level for the NSX had been reached a couple years ago, £20k for a decent early example £25k for a late 3.2 popup and £30k for an immaculate facelift simply because it's newer is about where I'd place it, £50k is silly money for one IMO.
Funny you should also mention the R8, a car I feel is like a modern interpretation of the NSX. Yes some people will knock it purely for being an Audi but if you can look past the negatives now attached to that badge it looks decent, is mid engined rwd, has very good handling, is relatively reliable, BUT it is newer, has a better interior and a much more powerful V8 engine in it, is noticeable quicker and they can be had for £45k now. Makes a £50k 9 year old NSX look expensive in comparison IMO.
There is a massive disparity between prices early cars are probably too cheap and late cars seem to have gone up massively and disproportionately, strange when you consider that the car didn't actually change very much over it's lifespan and the pop-up lights car is arguably prettier and the more original design which makes me think something else is pushing up the price of late cars. Chancers or dealers looking to make a quick profit due to the massive hype which now seems to surround this car all of a sudden maybe?
I just think the natural level for the NSX had been reached a couple years ago, £20k for a decent early example £25k for a late 3.2 popup and £30k for an immaculate facelift simply because it's newer is about where I'd place it, £50k is silly money for one IMO.
Funny you should also mention the R8, a car I feel is like a modern interpretation of the NSX. Yes some people will knock it purely for being an Audi but if you can look past the negatives now attached to that badge it looks decent, is mid engined rwd, has very good handling, is relatively reliable, BUT it is newer, has a better interior and a much more powerful V8 engine in it, is noticeable quicker and they can be had for £45k now. Makes a £50k 9 year old NSX look expensive in comparison IMO.
Guvernator said:
I'm glad you agree that the NSX does seem to have got trapped in a self perpetuating bubble. I also agree that outright ownership costs should be relatively low if prices stay the same or continue to rise, unless of course the bubble bursts.
I'd still balk at spending £50k on one for the simple reason that I just find it forever puzzling that a car is given more worth based on seemingly very ambiguous qualities. It's not an antique vase or a painting (even paintings which are "worth" millions puzzle me). It's a car, a device whose sole purpose is to give driving pleasure and therefore it should be judged on how good it is at doing that compared to other cars. Any other measure of it's "worth" is meaningless to me.
As a device for my driving pleasure, the NSX ownership has been fantastic. No car is perfect and there are so many different approaches to design and we are all heavily subjective in our views of what constitutes a good drive. I'd still balk at spending £50k on one for the simple reason that I just find it forever puzzling that a car is given more worth based on seemingly very ambiguous qualities. It's not an antique vase or a painting (even paintings which are "worth" millions puzzle me). It's a car, a device whose sole purpose is to give driving pleasure and therefore it should be judged on how good it is at doing that compared to other cars. Any other measure of it's "worth" is meaningless to me.
What I will say, is that my driving experience is, as for many others, about a number of elements; steering feel, suspension, brakes, build quality, sound, power, dynamics etc etc.
Driving one gives me a sense of occasion and the understanding that every aspect of the car has been designed to work together and to aid driver enjoyment.
Visibility is excellent, the driving position is superb. The airbox sits just behind the passenger seat and the tuned induction under mid range load sounds fantastic. It has one of the most characterful engines ever produced, but benefits from a good system.
The suspension is beautifully judged, especially on the targa model which is slightly more forgiving.
These cars were hand build to a very high standard using high quality parts. In fact Honda lost money on every car.
All these elements and more makes lasting a driving experience and an attractive ownership proposition.
I also like the sound of zero/minimal depreciation;)
Finally, and just to clear a couple of things up on this thread. Late 'facelift cars (2002-2005) have never been available for much less than £30K unless higher mileage or catD.
In the last few years prices have firmed up and in the last two years good later cars have been bought by investors and enthusiasts alike, thus increasing in value.
Cheers,
Guvernator said:
and a much more powerful V8 engine in it, is noticeable quicker.
When new, agreed, but not so sure how much different there would be when the R8 has carbon build up on inlet valves. I was tempted by one, but will never by another direct injection car until they sort out this basic flaw.
And here is mine , pretty as you like but not as shiny as yours !!!
92 Model , 100k just debating to have Kaz do a full engine refresh and get the leather redone.
Makes me smile every time I drive it , random strangers do just walk up to you and start telling you how good a car it is. Went to a car show when I first bought it 8 years ago and came back to find two young japanese lads having their pic taken with it. Keep hankering after a porsche but my incredibly sensible other half always reminds me that there are no other affordable supercars with such low running costs and zero depreciation ! Another big reason to keep it is that i get a set of golf clubs AND a powakaddy in the boot , try that in a 911 !!
AFC1886 said:
I do adore the NSX, but i'm not sure i could spend that amount of money on one over say an F355, R8 or Aston V8 Vantage?
It's one of those cars. You either get it or you don't. There are loads of cars that I don't get, but it doesn't mean I'm right and it doesn't mean that they aren't worth the price on the ticket. We buy cars for different reasons. We have different expectations.
For instance the Guvenor would rather spend his £50k on a Lotus Exige V6. I like the idea of this car very much, but it doesn't fulfil certain criteria for me, so I will probably never own one.
The 355 is a similar proposition. Love the looks, love the sound. But I want a car that I can use in all weathers if I so choose. I want it to have stronger residual resilience against use and I don't want large bills. Put simply. Neither the lotus or the Ferrari get close to the build quality of the Honda. And that's an important factor when I buy a car.
Some may say this means I have no passion. But like many, I'm a realist. Luckily the car I own is one I am also enthusiastic about.
Cheers.
Guvernator said:
Funny you should also mention the R8..... BUT it is newer, has a better interior and a much more powerful V8 engine in it, is noticeable quicker and they can be had for £45k now. Makes a £50k 9 year old NSX look expensive in comparison IMO.
The difference being that the R8 is common (relatively speaking) and is going to become even more common over the next few years as they keep churning them out. The NSX is rare (in the UK) and will only ever become rarer.I saw 4 R8s in Bristol at the weekend just driving about, not sure I've seen that many NSXs on the road in 10 years.
Exclusivity and rarity cost money, R8s will never be rare. Not really sure it's anything like a modern NSX either, but that's just my opinion
When did these get expensive like two years ago get a facelift for around 35-40k and a nice older one for 20k
Did owners all meet up and agree to add 10k onto the selling price or something...
Personally think around 15 - 20k and 30 - 35k for a facelift would be more what they should be worth 50k is a hell of a lot of money for a 9yr old 300bhp car imo.
Did owners all meet up and agree to add 10k onto the selling price or something...
Personally think around 15 - 20k and 30 - 35k for a facelift would be more what they should be worth 50k is a hell of a lot of money for a 9yr old 300bhp car imo.
greggy50 said:
50k is a hell of a lot of money for a 9yr old 300bhp car imo.
A 250 GTO also has 300bhp but is 50 years old and costs £20million plus. I guess it's all relative.Doubt I'd ever consider buying an NSX for over £40k, but then even if I was a multi-billionaire I wouldn't spend £30m or so on a ferrari however pretty it is.
If people are buying NSXs for £40k plus then that's what they're worth. It's iconic, rare, has no modern honda equivalent, still looks cool and supposedly one of the ultimate driver's cars and I guess that appeals to some people.
I've not the whole thread, so apologies if this has been said already.
Re values for the more collectible cars (low mileage, facelift), AIUI the single biggest driver for the increase in values is the export of RHD cars to the Far East.
When I bought my car, I was competing against a HK bidder who was happy to buy the car unseen.
This demand from the Far East is affecting many desirable cars - I have bought a couple of cars from 4 Star Classics who specialise in early M cars, among other things, and oftentimes they are selling these cars abroad.
Mine is insured for around £47k (it's done 12k miles, 2004 car); have no plans to ever sell it because I love the design philosophy and the ultra supple ride / handling balance. I also love the VTEC engine, and that fact that it has just the right amount of power for a good B road drive. It is, put simply, a wonderful piece of engineering.
Cheers
Re values for the more collectible cars (low mileage, facelift), AIUI the single biggest driver for the increase in values is the export of RHD cars to the Far East.
When I bought my car, I was competing against a HK bidder who was happy to buy the car unseen.
This demand from the Far East is affecting many desirable cars - I have bought a couple of cars from 4 Star Classics who specialise in early M cars, among other things, and oftentimes they are selling these cars abroad.
Mine is insured for around £47k (it's done 12k miles, 2004 car); have no plans to ever sell it because I love the design philosophy and the ultra supple ride / handling balance. I also love the VTEC engine, and that fact that it has just the right amount of power for a good B road drive. It is, put simply, a wonderful piece of engineering.
Cheers
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff